Fair or Foul? Really?

[Racerkyle20]

CSR driver in article

I posted on Ed's FB page about who the CSR driver in this article they were speaking about. Ed jabbed at me that it must have been me in the Second heat when i "spun" out. Funny stuff.

In all seriousness as I run down the list of CSR driver's in that heat I can only come up with one "team." But the more I think about this "team" the more I laugh about someone slowing down for another to get high points. Because it's that kind of team (I'm talking about a specific team not general) that makes boat racing fun. That team as probably the most genuine guys/gals out there and I have never once heard or seen them do anything on the course that would consider as 'team driving.' These guys/gals are truely what boat racing is all about. Having fun with friends in a sport we all love.

The point is, whoever the article got that quote from did not have first hand information, nor did not they have someone on the beach giving him/her full details of the "plan." It was pure guesstimation on the part of a 3rd party observer. They weren't even sure if it was CSR! The quoter used "CSR, I think." I see the writer had intent to show a possible problem, but using that kind of information isn't even worthy of use by local reporters. Just saying...

[pops67g]

There is a saying.......

Wide acceptance of an idea is not proof of its validity!

However someone gets "the Title" it still means that having it and a buck fifty still only gets you a cup of coffee.

[sponsonhead]

Wow....Hate??? Pretty strong words there.

I'm thinking that Tony was referencing Hearn's signature on his HR posts, Don.

R-19

[Dave M]

Sad

As the victim of a few occurances of what in my opinion is bad ethics, I simply quit attending some races, which eventually led me to other things.

I have a saying that I think a good majority of boat racers have, and it is a defining part of what the sport is. "I would rather get beat on the race course, than the beach." Leave the poltics on shore, race to win every time.

You don't need another rule to correct the problem, you simply need a few to take care of the problem right then. The sport does not need these types, and in my opinion, would be better off without them. I do not know who the article refers to, nor do I care. It is a ****ty way to win a Nationals, really ****ty. How can one be proud of an accomplishment like that when you know that happened ? Character flaw if you think it is okay. Go play in some car races. I have been beach raced a few times, it is no fun.

[Big Don]

I'm thinking that Tony was referencing Hearn's signature on his HR posts, Don.

R-19

Guess he should be more careful on how he say's or writes things because that is not how I took it.

[Big Don]

You don't need another rule to correct the problem, you simply need a few to take care of the problem right then. The sport does not need these types, and in my opinion, would be better off without them. I do not know who the article refers to, nor do I care. It is a ****ty way to win a Nationals, really ****ty. How can one be proud of an accomplishment like that when you know that happened ? Character flaw if you think it is okay. Go play in some car races. I have been beach raced a few times, it is no fun.

Dave because you were not there, let me explain.

I did not see whatever supposedly happened in CSR or CSH. Some people think it was CSR, some think it was CSH. Whatever… All I know is the winner of both these classes was not decided on whatever supposedly happened. Joe Pater won CSR, he had no teammate out there and he won. Jordan Swain won CSH. He had no one out there helping him either. Unfortunately Jordan was DQ’ed in inspection and no one could have seen this coming. Joe Pater ended up winning after Jordan’s unfortunate DQ in inspection and whatever supposedly happened on the course did not have an impact on that. I just don’t want either of the two championships to be more tainted then they already are because of Jordan’s DQ in CSH.

Once again it did not have an impact on the winner of either of those classes.

[Matt Dagostino]

Good news....

Guess he should be more careful on how he say's or writes things because that is not how I took it.

Big Don

Glad to see your out of the hospital and back on Hydroracer.........hope your Doctor had warm hands!!

Later

[Dave M]

Thanks

Dave because you were not there, let me explain.

I did not see whatever supposedly happened in CSR or CSH. Some people think it was CSR, some think it was CSH. Whatever… All I know is the winner of both these classes was not decided on whatever supposedly happened. Joe Pater won CSR, he had no teammate out there and he won. Jordan Swain won CSH. He had no one out there helping him either. Unfortunately Jordan was DQ’ed in inspection and no one could have seen this coming. Joe Pater ended up winning after Jordan’s unfortunate DQ in inspection and whatever supposedly happened on the course did not have an impact on that. I just don’t want either of the two championships to be more tainted then they already are because of Jordan’s DQ in CSH.

Once again it did not have an impact on the winner of either of those classes.

I actually tried to read the article online through the link provided. I think I read the whole thing, but not sure, it was jumping around on the screen, and hard to navigate. but, the way I read it made it sound blatant. The person in whatever class it was looked back and slowed to let someone else pass them to take the win. Richard Noggin move no matter who you are, or what you race. That is just my opinion. I respect Joe Pater for his accomplishments. I don't see him pulling that move. but I could be wrong, lord knows I have been wrong at least once in my life. I decided you were to stupid to use the ball cleaner properly and that I, being smarter and less stupid could make it work well. Guess we are both actually pretty stupid. Should we hire Hearn as a lawyer to sue the maker of the ball cleaner ?

I am not trying to single out anyone in this instance, just saying it is a richard noggin move to look back, realize someone is way back, slow and let them win the Nat's. Team Mate or not. That is only my opinion. When I am racing you, I expect your A Game, I expect to be pushing the limits of the rig. I expect to be racing. Why in the hell would I spend money to go joy riding in a rig made for racing ?

[sponsonhead]

Who knows???

Actually, I have no idea if it's fair or foul, because I STILL cannot get the online version to open in my browser. It crashes consistently, whether I use Internet Explorer OR Firefox.

So, I give up. If anybody feels like reposting the article here, I might have a little further Eddyfication.

Thanks.

R-19

[tomatoface]

team driving mark &larry lol

[Matt Dagostino]

Hard Copy..............

Actually, I have no idea if it's fair or foul, because I STILL cannot get the online version to open in my browser. It crashes consistently, whether I use Internet Explorer OR Firefox.

So, I give up. If anybody feels like reposting the article here, I might have a little further Eddyfication.

Thanks.

R-19

Pat
I can't really see it on line either.....BUT, Val and I received the HARD COPY issue this past weekend in the good ole US MAIL. I imagine you will get your quarterly issue soon featuring this article!!

Usually the bulk mail system APBA uses for mass mailing lands my Propeller Issues behind the rest of the country here in Maryland but looks like we got ours early!!

The issue is really pretty comprehensive this month and is moving in the right direction overall, in my opinion.

Matt

[ricochet112]

One of the most coveted
individual achievements
in baseball is the perfect
game. In Layman’s
terms, that’s when a
pitcher doesn’t allow
an opposing team to
take a base by getting
a hit, walk or error
-- 27 batters up, 27
down. Rarely does a
pitcher even think of
the possibility until half
of the game is over,
then the pressure builds
exponentially with
every pitch.

Similarly, in racing, the chase for a High
Points title can unexpectedly jump up on
drivers, especially after summer nationals.
What was once just another season on
the water becomes a full-throttle, crosscountry
run of speed and spreadsheets
-- how many points does he have? How
many races do I need to qualify?
In the realm of sportsmanship versus
gamesmanship -- the former carrying
a positive connotation while the latter
carrying a negative -- it’s possible for
competitors to continue as they were
within the full spirit of competition, or to
dwell in the ethical gray areas of the rules.
For the pitcher who’s near perfection, the
gamesman facing him might try to bunt
the ball for a base hit or an error. For the
driver who’s already winning in High
Points, he might decide to scratch himself
from completing a legal class for the final
heat, to the dismay of his competition.

Perhaps it’s a bad comparison, if in
scope alone. Boat racing is different than
other sports and even other motorsports.
However, there is some evidence to
suggest that even in a family-oriented
sport, there can be a slightly detestable
side for the sake of the chase.
The games they play
A stock outboard driver, who wished
to remain anonymous, said the sport is
experiencing more instances of ethically
questionable gamesmanship, even
occurring as recently as the Grass Lake
Stock Nationals two months ago.
“In CSR, I think, the leader slowed his
boat almost to a stop before the finish,
turned to look back and waited for his
teammate to pass. The eventual winner was
leading the class in high point,” the source
said. “I never saw anything like it before.”
Such an act hurts the drivers chasing
the points leader. They count on the
field playing to their best capabilities.
The source attributed it to the growing
mentality absorbed through other sports,
such as NASCAR. The source likened the
Grass Lake incident to when NASCAR
teammates, usually in packs of three or
four, allow the last car to drift before going
to the front.
The anonymous drive saw times when
rivals “scratch” or remove themselves from
races by “packing up Sunday and leaving.”
Whether the reason is because of bad
blood or gamesmanship, the outcome is
“unfortunate.”
Mark Weber, Inboard chairman, said he
saw something similarly egregious. Years
ago, a high point champion launched
his boat for the final heat, but, instead of
racing, he drove to the infield and cut his
engine. The final class was a boat short
of a legal start, therefore, eliminating his
closest competition from earning any
points. It guaranteed his high
point championship.
“I don’t want my kids to learn bad habits
like this,” the anonymous stock driver
said. “Chasing points can take the fun out
of racing. We give yellow and red flags
for penalties that occur during the race,
I’d like to propose implementing similar
deductions toward protecting
the sport.”
Weber said he believes new rules should
be judged on one principle: “Can they
be enforced?”
“If they can’t be easily enforced, what was
once created to solve grey areas becomes a
new set of grey areas,” he said. “People will
find a way to circumvent the
rule book.
“I tell everyone the only way to avoid
anything like that is to race. When it
gets to the end of the summer, you’re
racing your ass off, we track everything
in spreadsheets; we know exactly what
everyone is doing and what it will takes to
beat them.”
A lot of guys take the High Point chase
very seriously, according to the source.
“There’s a cat and mouse going on when
one says he isn’t running for points, but
then they start showing up at any race he
can get to,” the stock driver said.
“It’s not like they’re competing for $5,000
and a trip to Aruba. I think winners still
get two patches, two decals for the boat
and a certificate. You would swear it’s
everything in the world to them.”
In good fun
Tim Small, a multi-class PRO
Outboarder, knows a thing or two about
high point drama. Last season, he and
his longtime rival Mike Krier took the
250CCR class down to the wire. Small,
who managed one more race than the
winner, failed to catch Krier -- by a measly
six points.
“You can’t afford to have even one bad
race,” Small said. “I’ve won my share of
high points championships. Some years
you go for the Hall of Champions, and
others you focus on Summer Nationals.
We don’t race for big prize money, so you
want to get everything you can out of it.”
Racing season after racing season,
throughout his entire career, Small hasn’t
seen too much gamesmanship. “I don’t
think much happens; we’re a family, and
we support one another,” he said.
“Sometimes you’re far from home, so
you’re going to race no matter what. We
may be enemies on the water, but we’re
also friends once we’re docked.”
Tom Sutherland, the Modified Outboard
chair, echoed much of the sentiment when
he tried to recall whether such unethical
practices occurred.
“In general, I suppose ‘bad’ drivers are
going to do ‘bad’ things, but it doesn’t
really happen that often,” he said. “At least,
I never saw it.
Boat racing doesn’t have the luxury to play
such games, according to Sutherland. It
comes down to economics.
“One, we need to pay the club entry fees,
and two, some people drove a long way (to
race),” Sutherland said. “So people need to
race, not fight.”

[mercguy]

team orders?????

wow, I wish I could get my teammate to pull over (if it is so claimed), so that I could have set a DSH record.......hell no, I expect no less, in fact, expect to get hacked.......there sure as **** are no "team orders" on the team I race with.........some actually wonder why we race each other so hard?? Hey, if it wasn't for the fierce competition on our team, none of us would get any faster......and that makes one work even harder!!!

as to the acclaimed "CSR" move, I was in that race and definately did not see **** (even though I was a half lap behind the leaders)............sounds like poor reporting to me.....


let's move on, it is still too early to start all the "winter *****ing".....

[propnuts]

Come on Big Don

Guess he should be more careful on how he say's or writes things because that is not how I took it.

It's right there in Ed's signature line, tell him how you feel about the word. As someone pointed out to me a while ago, he's a lawyer, people say a lot worse things to and about him all the time