New topic

[David_L6]

I prefer a 1 mile course. That probably comes from years of racing a C Merc with 1:1 gear ratio (and not enough money to buy short course and long course props!).... I've had fun on some of the shorter courses, but mostly in my E (DMH). I'm not interested in racing on a course shorter than 3/4 mile. Having always raced AOF, and now NBRA, I've never had the opportunity to race on a 1 1/4 or 1 2/3 mile course, but I'd sure like to.


Dave,

The NBRA is having the 2005 Short Course Nationals at Rockaway Beach, MO (just out of Branson) June 4th and 5th. The 2005 (long course?) NBRA Nationals are July 9 - 10 at Centrilia, IL.

I don't know what the AOF is doing next year. For a year or three (not sure how many - ???) the Short Course Nationals were held in FL early in the spring.

Prior to that the Short Course Nationals were held in the summer and usually in Quincy, IL (for several years). One SCN was held in Beaumont, TX('89) and one at Alex ('95).

The AOF (long course?) Nationals have always been just like APBA in that they've been all over the place - AL, IL, IA, LA, MO, OK, TX, and maybe other states that I don't remember right now....

[dholt]

Having two different Nationals courses is the most incomprehensible thing I've ever heard of.

Let's see, there will be 2 Super Bowls this year. One played on a 100 yard long field, the other on a 75 yard long field.

Or...since all baseball parks are different, we'll have a "short" field World Series played in Fenway and a "long" field World Series in Detroit's park. (it's huge, trust me.)

No matter what course you race on, you better be fast to win against the National's competition. Meaning, you better test, you better spend some money and you better spend some time on your equipment.

This bunk that a "short" course is ALL about driving and that a bigger course has very little to do with driving is ridiculous. You still have to get a start...pick a good lane and drive around people...in 2 HEATS.

Hell, you do more driving on a bigger course because there are more "lines", to borrow a car racing term. And more opportunity to make up ground or extend a lead.

And take a look around....the fastest boat doesn't always win on the current National's courses. I can attest to that. Four 20 titles...and not once was I the fastest boat.

Dana

[David_L6]

Dana,

This stuff was going on before I started racing so I'm not sure what the thinking behind the Short Course Nationals was.... I think that it may have come about just to try to draw a lot of people to a race other than the Nationals.... That's just speculation on my part though. The enticement to attend the SCN is 1.5 times points (50% more points). No more races than I get to go to the extra points (overall points for that matter) don't mean a thing to me. I plan on going to the 2005 NBRA Short Course Nationals because I know that most likely there will be a lot of boats there. The location is GREAT also.

[hagerl8m]

Short Course

Dana i wasn't saying create two different national titles, its a little joke from guys who run at places like Oshgosh. But i bet you could bring the fastest stuff you own to a race like that and i could beat you on driving alone, most likely i would have to because i'm slower than you. i'm just tring to help the sport. Shorter courses equal shorter race days, that makes it easier to get the water and keep people around to watch your race. And yes i know that the nationals courses have gotten smaller over the years, but the average weekend race courses has gotten bigger. see i know you race BSR, and when i run down to the first turn and i get there and i don't have to learn to turn my boat there is a problem. thats why i race a roll up. also this past year i was racing axsr and there was two drivers in the race faster than i was, but i kept it on the inside and made a last turn pass on both of them. it was one of the most exciting races i've ever been in, now your saying a long course is better, if it was a long course this race would have became a strung out parade, thats boring. i guess a 3/4 mile course is a good size. as long as it have a roll up turn and a hydro turn, its only fair. because as long as i'm around there will be at least one roll up boat out there and actully make that two because jim won't give it up either.

Chris 8M
Rolling it up for the rest of my life

[dholt]

Chris,

Maybe we should describe what we think "short" and "long" are.

How would you rate these in terms of size of course:

Grass Lake
Constantine
Whitney Point (as a Nationals course)
Dayton's 1 mile record course

[hagerl8m]

i can rate these courses

Grass Lake
Constantine
Whitney Point (as a Nationals course)
Dayton's 1 mile record course

i would like to see all of these courses smaller, but there isn't much i could do at dayton. but i'll rate the from smallest to longest. grass lake, constantine, dayton, whitney. i understand the racing is about speed but you know that there is driving too. Here is a little info for you, my testing since i started racing is put a prop on at the race and race it, i think in 11 years i've put a boat in the water not on a race weekend, 4 times. new boat and to try and marathon set up. and dad and i haven't spent much money at all on motor, since we do our own work. and we win, but don't say its top speed and money spent. i've been sitting there talking to other drivers that tell me how fast they are going, and every once in a while i'll throw a gps in my boat during race and have gone alot slower than what i'm told others are going, and i still win. but i just want to shorten the race day, wouldn't it be nice to start at noon and be done by 5. instead of starting at 9am and being done at 7. maybe people would start to watch our sport. but i've always liked the short course, i really missed oshgosh this year, spent the weekend at Kankakee with Ladd and Fox. but yeah thats my favorite race, running bsr on less than 1/2 mile course, with 7 boats, the whole time your turning. and its not about that start i watched dad start last pass everyone and win. don't tell me that it was top end or start. it was driving. but yeah i'm willing to race a big course lets just reduce some of them.

chris 8m

[dholt]

Chris,

Suprised to hear you say you'd like to see Grass Lake smaller. Seems about right to me....although I wish the run to the first turn was longer. Always thought Constantine was a perfect sized course. Has character too. Bigger first turn, tighter turn to...and rougher than hell halfway down the backstretch.

So how would you, or others, feel about paying $25-$30 for two heats that last a total of 4 minutes? I guess it doesn't bother you, but it would sure bug me.

Like I said earlier, there are much bigger fish to fry in terms of shortening the race day. Too many classes...too many heats.


By the way, were you at Dayton two years ago when the 1/2 mile course was up and we had 4 crashes in the first 2 classes of racing?

D.

[hagerl8m]

yepper

yes i was at dayton when they tried to fun the 1/2 mile record. and yes i saw the four flips, i was in one of the classes that had flips. I was at the national meeting also that year when ed asked the record committee to create a course to try and i was the member at the meeting that was heard by ed, and its in the minutes, i said that they way the committee set the course up was wrong and dangerous. i also asked the committee if anyone had ever run on a course like that. i won't say any names. but they all said no. maybe that was one of the problems with that course. i had an idea, but what i'm told alot is i'm just a kid. but i guess i'll have to live with that. and yes your right we do have bigger fish to fry. i agree we have too many classes. i am still going to stand behind the axs class, but there needs to be changes to fix it. it needs to be the steping stone class. they lowered the age in the class last season, and guess what there were more flips and crashes. maybe a 13 year old shouldn't be going that fast. but thats something else that needs work. how can we build a sport with out change???
ok i was wrong, constanie is fine, and grass lake is good on the sunday course when they bring the first turn in. deeper water=safer, its only like 3 feet deap when you exstend that course. i know, i've helped set it. but your right lets fix other things first.
oh yeah paying 25-25 dollar for 4 minutes. its not the time in the boat that should be there its the fun you had racing deck to deck for the two heats. and what about eliminations, i only get one heat if i screw up, so whats the difference?
chris 8m

[Dave M]

APBA Has 2.....................

Having two different Nationals courses is the most incomprehensible thing I've ever heard of.

Let's see, there will be 2 Super Bowls this year. One played on a 100 yard long field, the other on a 75 yard long field.

Or...since all baseball parks are different, we'll have a "short" field World Series played in Fenway and a "long" field World Series in Detroit's park. (it's huge, trust me.)

Dana

Dana,

APBA does the same thing, Winter Nationals and Summer Nationals..... One is more prestigious than the other by tradition and points awarded, same as the other organizations........

[dholt]

Those two championships are not dictated by course length. I would imagine the other organizations that have a "long" course and "short" course Nationals have some sort of guidelines for each course. Or is it..."well, this one looks pretty big and this one is fairly small."

And for the record...which winner is the "true" National champion? The short course winner or the long course winner? There is only one National Champ in APBA...and it ain't decided in the winter.



APBA also has Divisional championships too.

The issue at hand is not about what types of championships are awarded, it's about course sizes.

D.

[nbranews]

The true National Champion

And for the record which winner is the true National Champion

Those two championships are not dictated by course length. I would imagine the other organizations that have a "long" course and "short" course Nationals have some sort of guidelines for each course. Or is it..."well, this one looks pretty big and this one is fairly small."

And for the record...which winner is the "true" National champion? The short course winner or the long course winner? There is only one National Champ in APBA...and it ain't decided in the winter.



APBA also has Divisional championships too.

The issue at hand is not about what types of championships are awarded, it's about course sizes.

D.

NBRA holds two National Championship Races
A 3/4 mile "short course" Nationals June 4-5 2005 Rockaway Beach, MO
and a 1mile "long course" Nationals July 9-10 2005 Centralia, IL
Both courses are surveyed and each crowns a champion for each class.
These corses are sometimes also used as a means for setting compition records for 3/4 and 1 mile compitition speeds.
There is no more pride in being a long corse or a short course Champion.
The pride comes from winning these National Championship races which are open to all mod and stock boat racers in the country. APBA/AOF/NBRA.
This gives everyone a chance to bring their FAST STUFF and prove who is the FASTEST ON THE WATER. Thats Pride and even though both these races have decent prize money isn't PRIDE what we race for. DOUG SCHULTZ