Elimination Heats

[Ron Hill]

I know that most parts of the country aren't really worried about elimination heats, but I am.

What I'd like to see, and maybe this is an inbrd rule, or maybe Ross Wallach;s idea, but let's say we have 16 boats.

Suggested RULE CHANGE: Two eliminations heats were FOUR BOATS transfer to the FINAL. Heat three, is everyone 5th back from heats 1 and 2. Top 4 transfer to the FINAL.

Final heat is winner takes all.

Concept being, th guy person would at least get two heats, even if they didn't make the final...

Think about it. New drivers and back markers need more time of the water than one heat, which is the way current elimination heats are run.

[bill boyes]

Ron, Read the rule book for Stock/Pro/Mod/J. It can be done except for the stock Nationals.. We have done it run 3 heats.

[Ron Hill]

Confused here..

This would be four heats, not three.

Four to the finals for heat one.

Four to the finals from heat two.

Four to the finals from heat three.

12 boat final???

Is this what the rule book says, or does it count points for the win?

[RLR]

3heat format w!Title Series

Ron,
16 boats divided into 8 boat heats 1a-1b Run them, then comes heats 2a-2b

3rd heat top 12 for final heat w/every boat carrying their points to the third heat. Everyone getting 2 heats, top 12 get 3 heats

See the reasoning of giving new driver more heats, and this works really well, even if you had 30 boats, you just add 3a/3b, still taking top 12 from the 3 groups. BTW, each of the 2nd heats are mixed, running against some from previous heat, but many times against mostly new field, especially when more than 24 boats at a Nationals. Many times you have 2 w/800 pts and at least one w/600 points going to a pretty much winner takes alll final, but very entertaing to spectators

Ray

[Ron Hill]

16 Boats, Don't Confuse Me...

Let me say this: I was always in the Blue Bird reading group (LOW), but I could kick the ball higher and farther than anyone at the school.

Anyway, 16 boats............Heat 1 (8 boats) Top four to the MAIN

Heat Two (8 boats) Top four to the Main

Heat Three: 8 boats (4 from heat 1 and four from heat 2) Top four to the Main.

Main is winner takes ALL. I just don't see how you acn count points when some people will have raced three heats and some two heats......

Help me here......Am I thinking correctly? Again, I'm not talking about Nationals....I'm talking about Havasu Landing next month!

[Bill Huson]

well . . . to balance points you could take points for last chance boats that they scored in heat 1a or 1b, but since they tanked those heats - bottom 4 - they would race the final at a disadvantage. Or you could take last chance boat points from the last chance heat!

But for spectator simplification I like the idea of final heat winner take all - forget earlier heat points. For racers I like the Title Series system.

So the real question is ??? how many spectators are trying to please with the simple system? That would be spectators who have no clue about race scoring and just want to the winner of the final be the actual winner instead of the winner being some not-fast but steady Eddie who cranked out solid seconds and won on total points.

[Affholter66]

If nothing else worrying about how to run elimination heats at a non-national race..well seems like a Good Thing...my .02 that don't matter...The 1a-1b etc plan!

[bill boyes]

Ron,My good friend. However, sometimes you really tick me off. But I consider you a very good friend anyway. Let me do the work for you and I suggest you refer to the APBA rule book. I refer you to The Racing rules for Mod/Stock/Pro Rule 2 REGATTAS (10) "The Race for each class class shall consist of up to THREE heats". etc. Now the Pros have been doing this for years.
So that can be done is run 3 heats for all races.
Now if you have a need for Eliminations you run a TWO heat elimination and a ONE heat final. GET IT!!!! All get a least 2 heats. The final 12 get THREE heats. Real simple. except it is not done very often. What many of us have doing for years is running a 2 heat final and a one heat elimination. The 13/14 boat only gets one heat. RON I know this as many many years ago i was a back marker as the 13/14 boat. One heat Billy as my friends used to say. Now the exception is the Stock Nationals where the rule is Eliminations will be a 2 heat race. ref rule 22 (3)(3(e)
OK so do what you want. We did this at the at the 2010 Western Oroville Divisonals for Stock/Mod/Pro and stated so on the race circular. Boy did I get the hostel calls saying we cannot DO THIS.!!! I referred these people to the rule and never heard back from them. Did not get ONE complaint from the racers. OK get it!!! run 3 heats if eliminations are needed then run a one heat final. Everyone gets at least 2 heats. OPC/Inboard are not under this rule. However, OPC you can run 2 heats of 5 laps and a third heat of more than 5 laps. Get That!!! The 3rd heat is a Marathon of at least 6 laps.

[Ron Hill]

Thanks, But..

If nothing else worrying about how to run elimination heats at a non-national race..well seems like a Good Thing...my .02 that don't matter...The 1a-1b etc plan!

We have two camps out here, those who won't race without points and those that ask "WHAT ARE POINTS". BOTH CAMPS ARE GOOD PEOPLE.

But, NO ONE, EXCEPT BILL BOYES WHO SAID, "READ THE RULES" SEEMS TO KNOW IF WE CAN RUN ELIMINATIONS HEAT THIS WAY. I could not find the rule to read.

Let's try this: Can an Stock Outboard class get national Points with a "Winner Takes All" final heat??

[bill boyes]

I told you the rule. Read it RON. Gezz. Nationals points the answer is YES.
ASK Cindy from APBAHQ. Again YES!!!!!
JUST DO IT. State what the Race Committee is going to do on the Race Circular. I think we should it more often.

[Ron Hill]

Hello, Is This Thing Working???

I have 16 boats. I don't want to run two 8 boat qualifier heats and a 12 boat final.

I want to run two qualifying heats and take the top four from each heat to the final.

Then, I want to run third qualifier with the last 8 boats.

I want four of those 8 to qualify for the final.

I want the 12 boats in th final to be equal with "WINNER TAKE ALL"..

THIS WOULD MEAN ME 16 BOAT RACED 4 HEATS.

This is NOT how races are run NOW.....At least I don;t think this is how they are run...

[bill boyes]

NOOOO. That is not how it works. Lets make this simple.
say you have 16 boats. With that you will need 2 groups of 8 in each heat. You run 2 heats ea. The 12 best times of the 16 are in the final 12 3rd heat. Now to make it interesting you can have a heat draw if more than 24 boats so that boat (A) and boat (B) are not on the same 2 heats. IE Bill Boyes and Ron Hill are not in the same 2 heats. we may be in the final 3rd heat though.
Ron It is passed by bed time. check me in the A.M. Good night.!!!

[Shep]

Ron
I thought you have A.D.D. and couldn't stay focused on anything. You are sure doing a good job staying focused on this!

[sam]

Ron
I thought you have A.D.D. and couldn't stay focused on anything. You are sure doing a good job staying focused on this!

Its called hyperfocus ... its one of the aspects of ADD and its what makes many ADD folks successful ... hey look, a fly!

[Shep]