Been a week, someone pick a new topic.

[ryan_4z]

New D Motor

I think we can all agree that something needs to be done in the "D" class. Participation numbers tell us that. I think that a new motor is definetly needed. My only reservation about this one is the cost, $5700 if I remember correctly. See, I believe that numbers are down in DSH because it is easier and cheaper to run CMH, and still get a similar ride. If I am right about this then bringing in a new D motor that is that expensive will only hurt the class more, by driving even more people to CMH that may otherwise run DSH.

Other than that I think that legalizing this motor would be a good move. But if it is done than I feel we should set a date when the Merc would be no longer legal in the class(say 2 years from now). That way we would have a smooth transition to the new motor.

[csh12M]

Bass D motor

Hello Pat,

I am not on the commission this year, I found myself on the minority end of every issue last year. So I thought I would take a break and let someone else figure out the tough issues....maybe I have not been able to see the forest through the trees.

On the Bass engine, I know they have done some extensive testing. However, I also know they were invited and encouraged to send the motor east to the Nat's to let the nation take a look. Unfortunately that was not able to happen. If I was on the commission I would make it probationary in the D class (I think it had prototype status for last year). I would slate it for approval in 2006 if it made an appearance at the Nationals or for East coast testing. I think it is fair for all commisioners to have the oppourtunity to see it run, at least once, prior to approval.

Just my thoughts,

Dean

[pops67g]

D drivers speak up

How come most of the talk about replacing the 44XS comes from people who don't run the class? I don't understand all of the reasons why the class slowly has fallen off, but I would like to hear from those who have defected from the class as to why they left. There must be quite a few 44's hanging in basements and garages when they could just as well be running. It's a great motor and I have no problem getting all the pistons, rods, cranks etc. that I might need to keep it running for a long time. Come on D drivers, let's hear from you.

[David_L6]

I think we can all agree that something needs to be done in the "D" class. Participation numbers tell us that. I think that a new motor is definetly needed. My only reservation about this one is the cost, $5700 if I remember correctly. See, I believe that numbers are down in DSH because it is easier and cheaper to run CMH, and still get a similar ride. If I am right about this then bringing in a new D motor that is that expensive will only hurt the class more, by driving even more people to CMH that may otherwise run DSH.

Other than that I think that legalizing this motor would be a good move. But if it is done than I feel we should set a date when the Merc would be no longer legal in the class(say 2 years from now). That way we would have a smooth transition to the new motor.

Why would it be necessary to "outlaw" the 44XS?

I know that the ideal situation would be one motor per class, but that doesn't have to be. Two motors can work out well in one class. C mod is a good example. The NBRA Nationals were won by a Yamato. The AOF Nationals were won by a Merc. Both drivers/boats were at both races - they just changed positions. (i.e. Brian Tharpe won C hydro and Kevin McAfee was second at the NBRA Nats. Kevin won and Brian was second at the AOF Nats.) Don't forget that Dave Scott has done a lot of work (and spent a lot of money) to help make the Mercs available.

Run 'em both. The rivalry of Tohatsu VS Mercury may help the class.

[nbass]

Bass-Tohatsu performance

We did do a lot of testing and let anyone who wanted, to enter a race event. I will be publishing a more detailed results of our efforts, but in summary it ran with the 44xs. We tried a number of propellers and found good performance between 6600 and 7000 RPM. Typical course speed maxed at around 75 MPH. Good acceleration throughout the RPM range.
Neil

[Steve Johnson]

D xs

If your only gettin 75 Mph out of this thing you might as well leave it on the trailer. THATS TRUELY FIVE OFF (AND I'M ONE OF THE SLOW ONES). Maybe a better solution would be to give this motor it's own class and try to validate the NEW Equiptment = new driver theory that seems to come up as the root cause of our participation woes. I don't know what, if any promises were made to the Bass co. or to Dave Scott. If there were any, I feel they need to be honored. Seems like Dave has the D-merc problem handled for many years in the future. If the AXS was important enough to warrent a new class status than this new turnkey motor does too. this could be the golden oppertunity to try something new , Maybe mandate a bigger rough water size boat ? Sorc should buy ten and have them avalible ala Mouse Boats to get this class rolling.
p.s. I don't mind if they race with us in D-Stock for a while but they will get a good kickin on the race course.
Steve 77-G

"BE WHO YOU ARE,AND SAY WHAT YOU FEEL, BECAUSE THOSE WHO MIND DON'T MATTER AND THOSE THAT MATTER DON'T MIND''--- DR. SEUSS

[crankbearing]

Dsh

I think that the tohatsu in our class is a good thing as well, i am not against the addition of more motors in the class. I am also biased with a cheque book to prove it, I do not think that the 44xs should be outlawed. In fact I was just today out looking to spend more money on recasting gearcases.

It seems idiotic that the historical society just dumped a bunch of money into this class with the remanufactured mid-sections and now we are going to kill the motor. I have stated in the past that I sell a new 44XS for 4500USD pull the cord ready to race and I have delivered one this year, I am now building two more over the winter and a third is coming, that is four new 44XS motors in one year. That is four new drivers to the class. when I started this whole deal there was one "d" in Canada there are now 10 with 44's (racing) in less than three years. I think if you look at the numbers DSH were up this year, we had elims at the nationals, when was the last time for that?

But to prove a point you are right I can name 10 motors that are sitting in basements and I have tried everything less a sledgehammer to get them on the course with no luck.

I do not think that the motors are the problem, as it was said earlier "d" is an expensive class period. The days of $300.00 55H's are gone. I always scratch my head and wondered why guys tell me that 3K for a 4cylinder powerhead rebuilt to 44xs specs is too much money, I do not know how you all assemble a new race powerhead but if you do the math it is not hard to get to that total.

I agree with Dean that the bass motor should have come to the east and be proven across the country.

I have tried to buy a tohatsu D50 powerhead in Canada new or used from several dealers and they CANNOT get me one for trying, but I went around the corner the other day and bought two 50 mercs for a few hundred dollars that I can have racing in a couple weeks.

I do know! That if the Merc gets outlawed there will be quite a few racers in this part of world move to another class or quit altogether is the general consession.

I am a committed "d" driver all the way. I have invested way to much time and money in the Mercury to give up now. If that is the way of the SORC than it shall be I guess. The collectors will have a field day or you will certainly have a very many upset racers at the fact that they shelled out 10K on an outfit they cannot run or sell. Sure sounds like a good way to grow the class/sport to me.

my two cents.

Regards,

[Steve Johnson]

The "MERC CHALLANGE" EFFECT

In reply to a ? by Pops 67 G as to the slow decline of the D class,Has anyone considered the effect that in particular the end of the merc challange has had on the merc classes? both the 25xs and the 44xs were brought in as expensive replacement motors. so you automatically lost many in the class then. We sure gained some when we were racing for mercs money, then when that went away, so did a bunch of the drivers we gained. I'm sure someone has the #"s of then and now .Dsr was the first to fade since they didn't include it for more than 1 year. 25xs hydro ain't in the best of shape right now either. suprizing that we are in as good a shape as we are 15 years after the fact. for good or bad cash rules in this world and we tend to deny that in the boat racing world. the C-Classes are strong cause they're cheap.
If D mercs were $2000.00 you'd not be able to build enough. have a Bass challenge, the class would explode. Or offer a bounty for a Bass victory in DSH DSR then someone will start buying them.
Steve

[mercguy]

In reply to a ? by Pops 67 G as to the slow decline of the D class,Has anyone considered the effect that in particular the end of the merc challange has had on the merc classes? both the 25xs and the 44xs were brought in as expensive replacement motors. so you automatically lost many in the class then. We sure gained some when we were racing for mercs money, then when that went away, so did a bunch of the drivers we gained. I'm sure someone has the #"s of then and now .Dsr was the first to fade since they didn't include it for more than 1 year. 25xs hydro ain't in the best of shape right now either. suprizing that we are in as good a shape as we are 15 years after the fact. for good or bad cash rules in this world and we tend to deny that in the boat racing world. the C-Classes are strong cause they're cheap.
If D mercs were $2000.00 you'd not be able to build enough. have a Bass challenge, the class would explode. Or offer a bounty for a Bass victory in DSH DSR then someone will start buying them.
Steve

I agree with Steve here. I think the main reason why the D stock class numbers have diminished is due to the higher cost of equipment. Consider prices for NEW equpment for a NEW driver: 44xs/Bass D $4500/5500, new boat $3500, hardware $500, safety gear $1000, props $1000, this totals close to $10,000! Now, that is pricing for new equipment. I suppose you could find a decent used boat for $1500, but would still be close to $8500. Not many people can afford to spend that kind of money ALL UP FRONT. Atleast in some of the other classes, let's say CSH, you could buy a complete USED good rig for around $2500, add the other stuff and you would still be under $5000, about the price of a NEW D motor.........

I just am not sure the D stock class can survive much longer nowadays, so guys will either go the Cmod or Dmod route..........just my 2 pennies.

[pops67g]

High cost?

I think that $4500 for a motor is a pretty fair price when you consider how many seasons you can get out of it. I probably have about $8000 total in my 44XS over the last 17 years since i've been running it. This includes updates, damage from crashes, and one very expensive rebuild from overheating. That figures out to be about $475 per year to run this motor and it could have been a lot less with luck. Motocross racers have to replace their machines every year or so to remain competitive and they do it without hesitation. The point is, being a racer and being frugal just don't fit in the same equation if you want to run up front.

[csh12M]

No One Is Saying Get Rid Of The 44xs

No one even mentioned phasing out the 44XS at the meeting last year. Everyone started going off the handle after Ryan mentioned it in a post....the commission assured all the D racers in the class that the Merc. would continue to be dominant in the class for the next several years. We appreciate the work of Mr. Scott!! as much as the work my Mr. Bass. However, Mr. Bass did come to the meeting with an idea for a new motor that he followed up! It is not like this happens every day, therefore we thought it warrented consideration. The thinking was can we introduce it in a the D class as another motor option without handicapping the Merc. drivers. Because it was out intent to run both motors significant testing is necessary. I know a lot was done on the West coast and is going to be provided. However, because we are trying to handicap two motors I wish we could of seen and tried it here on the East coast as well. If I were a commissioner I think I would want to see some more testing on the other side of the country before I would approve it. I would move to make it probationary (a step up from Prototype that is was last year) and encourage Mr. Bass to send it to the Nats. for testing in front of everyone. If all are satisfied with the results, we make it leagal for 2006.

To me this seems like a reasonable way to introduce a new motor in a class where you are not intending to replace the existing motor.

1. First year protoype (limited testing by the manufacturer in their area)
2. Second year probationary status (nationwide testing and introduction at the national championships.
3. Legal motor in the class

Just my two cents worth, I want to see it run with my own two eyes before I would approve it in.

Later,
12

[sam]

On a broader horizon I think D Stock is over shadowed by Mod's FE class.


For the same money or less you can go 10 mph faster and make more noise.

Look at the costs to start up in FE .....

3 cyl OMC power head : $0 to $500

Bass Mid & Lower Unit, misc rigging $1800

For $2500 US you can start and run a shakedown year on your rig.
Over then next winter you can send the powerhead out to get it up to speed and still have spent less than either of the very good D Stock motors

I'm not recommending this as an alternative, just suggesting the real cause of the hardship in rebuilding D Stock

Again, I commend the 2 gentlemen who heard the cry of "build it and they will come". They still may!

[Haüenstein]

Probation

1. First year protoype (limited testing by the manufacturer in their area)
2. Second year probationary status (nationwide testing and introduction at the national championships.
3. Legal motor in the class

I take it once an engine gets to step 2, it's guaranteed to make it to step 3, and step 2 is basically just for "handicapping" purposes before making the new engine eligible for points, etc.?

[Matt Dagostino]

New Topic............CLOCKS.

Stock Outboard Commisioneers!!

Here's a agenda item for you. How about legislating that when 'possible' the conducting club of our premier event of the year.......The Stock Outboard National Championships, use a digital clock to start all the heats!

Here we are in 2004-05 and many clubs are still using stick clocks at our major events. My experience has been that digital clocks are much easier to read and seem to prevent a lot of gun jumping since drivers don't have to guesstimate the last 2 or 3 seconds of the old mechanlcal sweep /stick clocks. My guess would be that Region 4 or 5 would work something out with the conducting club of our premier event to provide the equipment! Perhaps the sweep hand clock could be used as a backup if the digital clock fails!!

Anyway, just a thought young Hearn. Nothing personal but as great as your Dayton event always is (Tornados Excluded), many drivers seem to complain that the sweep hand clock is very hard to read particularlly given the nature of the long shoot at Dayton!

Maybe it's time to enter the 21st century with our "clocks" at least at our premier event. Hey, since the technology is available..........why not use it.

MATT.........(Not quite 20/20 anymore)

[csh2z]

I don't think the problem with the D class is motor availability. Whoever wants to run DSH should call Dave and buy a motor. I think the biggest problem is a lack of commitment from the SORC. We need to spread the word that the 44XS is hear to stay, they are available and we don't expect that to change any time soon. By making that commitment we will significantly impact the investment value. People need to know in advance that the money they are spending will not be wasted 1 or 2 years from now. This is exactly why we need a long term plan For Stock Outboard. The real issue seems to be we don't know what we want our sport to look like. As a commissioner I believe it would be irresponsible to vote in favor of approving this new motor for a number of reasons.
1. The SORC made a commitment to Dave Scott,whether on paper, verbally, or just implied. We must honor that commitment. I don't think it would be right to turn our back on all that Dave has done and is still doing. I don't think the Bass bros. would appreciate if that happened to them after a couple of years. Two years from now there may be a whole different commission that can head in a different direction.
2. We made a major investment in the Merc tower housing. Including a commitment to a foundry and machine shop. The premise was to make this housing universal because we could see that complete motors by a manufacturer was not realistic in our future. Therefore the SORC owned housing should be the housing of choice.
3. For reasons stated above, I believe this venture will fail. I do not want to be responsible for the Bass bros. losing an even greater investment.
Until we create a long term plan for the future of this sport, we can't make a right decision. You can't build anything without a plan.
John Runne





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