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Open letter to the Mod commission

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  • #16
    Reasons and Rhetoric

    Dave,

    You, Jim Nilsen, Kyle and I sat in on the MORC discussion of the proposal to allow the Tohatsu in D Mod. As expected, the general consensus was not just No, but No with a Capital F. Some of the members on the commission also took the time to explain that their frustration was not solely because to them, the motor is A) an unknown quantity; B) doesn't have pipes on it; C) as proposed would have to run with a 3 blade prop and with a height restriction, which flies against current D Mod conventions...I get all of that.

    The fourth issue that they brought up, which was important to understand, was their personal frustration from asking for specific test data, which was time and again promised, and time and again never was produced. They felt like they were being deliberately misled by the failure to produce the requested data for what they described was 8 years. Again, I get that.

    It's interesting to note that when said requested data was finally presented, there was little interest shown in actually looking at it, and much more lip service paid to why they were mad because they'd been asking for it for 8 years, but again, that's the MORC's prerogative.

    Regrettably, if the Tohatsu owners in D want to run D Mod at some point in the future, their best course of action will probably be to let a little water flow under the bridge and leave the MORC alone, until they see that there might be a value in letting it in. Mod says D Mod Hydro is their fastest growing class and they have no need or interest in letting another engine into it.

    So, it is what it is. But let's look at one last thing: The actual membership numbers in DMH from 2007 through 2010 (source: APBA Website high point listings):

    2007: 65
    2008: 52 (20 percent drop)
    2009: 50 (4 percent drop)
    2010: 43 (14 percent drop)

    Now, a cynic would look at this and might comment, "if D Mod is their fastest growing and most successful class, then I'd hate to see what their other classes are losing." I'd rather not look at that, but instead look at the opportunities these numbers present: If the numbers are dropping an average of 12.6 percent a year, then I woiuld submit that your best shot at getting the Tohatsu into D Mod will be in about 9 years when their numbers dip to under 12, and then they might decide that allowing some growth potential in the class might be a good thing. If we're all still here, anyway.

    Just my two cents.

    R-19
    Last edited by sponsonhead; 02-02-2011, 08:55 AM.
    www.gleasonracing.com

    "No, THAT is why people hate him."

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    • #17
      Pat, thanks for finally providing an insightful, unbiased view on the topic.
      Last edited by HydroKyle93R; 02-02-2011, 05:30 PM.
      28-R

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      • #18
        Originally posted by HydroKyle93R View Post
        Pat, thanks for finally providing an insightful, unbiased conclusion on the topic.
        Kyle what are you smoking. You know on Hydroracer nothing is ever concluded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Mike - One of the Montana Boys

        If it aint fast make it look good



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        • #19
          D mod

          if the D mod merc guys are so fast why would they care if the Tohatsu runs anyway, what are they scared of a little compition, IE the reason that we RACE! There are people who dont want to run old stuff. Its kinda nice to take a NEW motor out of the box, insted of diving in the bone yard. I think that it would be foolish to turn entries/ racers away, when in fact the records show that the sport is not growing. This is just a non-bias opion because I run a mercury, however that does not mean I wouldn't buy a Tohatsu. It would be a lot easier to put a new guy a boat.

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          • #20
            I guess folks can wine all they want but I think Patrick layed down the facts. Sounds like a dead subject so if you want to play with the big boys you need to get to know the outboard boneyard folks at least for another ten years.
            Mike - One of the Montana Boys

            If it aint fast make it look good



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            • #21
              How Much ?

              Originally posted by mercguy
              PS: BTW, ALL of my racing equipment is for sale, including my STOCK Tohatsu with spare powerheads, etc........all my Cmod and Cstock stuff......along with half a dozen boats, etc.......
              Darren, how much for the CMod engine ? If memory serves, it is claimed to be the fastest on the left coast.
              Dave Mason
              Just A Boat Racer

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              • #22
                I have to ask Mercguy ,If your Tohatsu won't beat the merc 44 like I keep hearing why are you so set on wanting it in that class if the only way you will win is if our POS mercury breaks down on the race course?

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                • #23
                  Wow, MERCGUY. What an incredibly illogical and close-minded response and to both Dave and Patrick and really, anyone that cares about 750H. If I recall correctly, you were one of the Mod commissioners that failed to show up with the consistently requested data last year at the MORC meeting in Seattle; correct me if I'm wrong.

                  Did you ever think for a second that anyone Pro-Tohatsu would ever win the vote of the MORC without holding up their end of the bargain? Maybe Patrick is right, it will take 9 years before the numbers drop below 12 nationwide before the commission see's the "value" in letting another motor in. Whatever the case, it is and always shall be in their hands.

                  I hope your injuries have not prevented you from racing, the D guys out here need you and wish you a full recovery. Don't forget, this is just a hobby and were here to have fun. Forget the bureaucracy for awhile.

                  I hope that I can help reorganize and revive D Mod racing in R10 this year, it will be challenging, and somewhat limited due to water restrictions, but my goal is to have complete communication to all class members this season to help get the ball rolling.
                  28-R

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                  • #24
                    Daren I understand your frustrations, and I apologize for my accusation. Either way, there are errors on both sides of the table. Like Pat says, let it chill for awhile. The issue will not be resolved until the commission see's the value.

                    I do not deny that I am blessed with people that let me race their spendy toys around in circles. I can say that without the help of the Byrne's and Dennis Westby, I would not have had the opportunity or the motivation to race these last five years. But you don't see the bureaucracy bothering them. They are in it for the fun, the thrills, the reward, and the challenge.

                    So please, don't give me this **** about not taking any ownership in the racing that I do. I try to give back, and respect the things I am given in ways maybe you aren't aware of. I don't feel like I should have to prove my dedication to the sport or the owners of the toys I race to you.
                    28-R

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                    • #25
                      I think it’s best to move on regarding this Tohatsu issue. The decision is made and that’s it. All the verbal bashing in the world won’t change anybody’s opinion, at least in a positive way… If a racer, new or old, looks at what is being said on this topic, what do you think this looks like from the outside looking in? Whether you agree or not, keep an open mind. There has to be a reason the MORC voted it down again. There was a good fight and the Tohatsu lost, simple as that. Remember, nobody likes a sore loser.

                      If you ever have a problem in any category, trade your keyboard for a telephone (Go Old School!) and call your local commissioner.

                      J-Dub
                      206.271.6400

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                      • #26
                        Cut the crap

                        Originally posted by Black Sheep View Post
                        I think it’s best to move on regarding this Tohatsu issue. The decision is made and that’s it. All the verbal bashing in the world won’t change anybody’s opinion, at least in a positive way… If a racer, new or old, looks at what is being said on this topic, what do you think this looks like from the outside looking in? Whether you agree or not, keep an open mind. There has to be a reason the MORC voted it down again. There was a good fight and the Tohatsu lost, simple as that. Remember, nobody likes a sore loser.

                        If you ever have a problem in any category, trade your keyboard for a telephone (Go Old School!) and call your local commissioner.

                        J-Dub
                        206.271.6400
                        I was there and agree with JW and Pat. Mistakes have been made in the past, more then once, regarding the promotion of the Tohatsu to the MOD commission. To be honest, I'm surprised it even came to a vote of the commissioners this year, as I would not have given it a second thought especially after the way some of you berate them on-line. So it is time to move on Region 10, it's over for now (round 3). Except it and cut out the poor me attitude. Is it totally over (round 4?)? No, but an organized plan needs to be put together possibly including a motor to the MOD commission to do what they want with it (cut it up, sand it down, put it on a different boat, run at different heights, use 4 blade props, etc). All they want to know is what the motor can do. So the handful of you that are jumping all over the MOD commission, cut it out. If you want to discuss this topic anymore, please contact me byway of e-mail.

                        As many of you can gather, we have a passionate group of racers out here. Next time though, if their is a next time, we will come to the table with an organized plan and knock the MOD commissions socks off.

                        Thanks for reading this.
                        Jim

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                        • #27
                          Correct me if I am wrong but isn't most of the Mod classes for motors that got the boot from the stock classes. Kind of old and obsolete

                          Please note I said "Most" so why add a new motor and yes they use the 302 but the first 302's are now how old??
                          Mike - One of the Montana Boys

                          If it aint fast make it look good



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                          • #28
                            Corrected

                            Originally posted by blueskyracer View Post
                            Correct me if I am wrong but isn't most of the Mod classes for motors that got the boot from the stock classes. Kind of old and obsolete

                            Please note I said "Most" so why add a new motor and yes they use the 302 but the first 302's are now how old??
                            Mike,

                            In the days when engines, not motors... hehehe, in both the stock category and the mod category were basically the same, except the Mod's did what their namesake indicates, they modified them.

                            Today, stock has so many different rules and interpretations of rules, and inerptretations of interpretations of rules, that it would be impossible to evaluate anything. Simply put, if the stocks get back to the basic format as Dean proposed, A - D then the Mod category could maybe compare thing a little easier. Lets face it the only thing the two have in common anymore is the hulls, the 44XS and the Yamato. The last 5 years has been interesting with all the new engines stock has added.
                            Dave Mason
                            Just A Boat Racer

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by blueskyracer View Post
                              Correct me if I am wrong but isn't most of the Mod classes for motors that got the boot from the stock classes. Kind of old and obsolete

                              Please note I said "Most" so why add a new motor and yes they use the 302 but the first 302's are now how old??
                              Mike,
                              Up to last year (not sure what happened in Detroit) almost every current Stock engine is a legal Mod engine. The only exceptions are the Merc A & the Sidewinder A & 20. So no, Mod engines are not necessary the scraps that fall off the Stock table. And yes, there are some old engines in Mod that are no longer current Stock engines.

                              The only Stock class that does not have a home in Mod is the 25SSH class. All other Stock classes should have a place to race in stock form in Mod.
                              Brian 10s

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                              • #30
                                Thanks Dave and Brian. Just trying to learn a little history on Mod since I have now gone to the dark side.
                                Mike - One of the Montana Boys

                                If it aint fast make it look good



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