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  • #16
    Pat (Gleason),

    I think what we mean by "video games" is that the current generation of children tends to be more comfortable sitting in their homes playing video games, computer stuff and texting their friends. Our generation of children played outside and were more physically active. Heck things like the fact that Seafair was on all three (and we only had three) channels from the time trials through the final heat really helped to promote the sport.

    With our generation of kids not everyone made the "team" no matter what the sport. With todays generation everyone gets to make the team irregardless of how qualified they are to participate. There is an "entitlement factor" that todays kids expect.

    Times have certainly changed. I think in many cases parents are happy to have their generation of children not need to do anything else other than video games and texting. It is less expensive for them in this down economy.

    I think we all agree that we need to attract new people and then retain them. Hopefully old racers will return when the time is right for them. I still think that it is the financial aspect that deters new members. It is hard to lay out that much money and then be told you can't use your boat and motor etc. except after you driven for and unknown number of miles, and only during a test session lasting a few hours, then in maybe one heat where it is possible that if you don't make the "cut" you are done for the day.

    Boat racing is an expensive hobby. We need to reduce the costs to get people involved. We also need to "show" this sport to people. New Folks in Boats is a great way to do this. We need to advertise our races, APBA should pay for this advertising by giving each club some kind of reimbursement for the expenses that the club pays to promote the sport. Perhaps a portion of the membership dues from people within a specific region should be returned to the region to help promotion expenses. The more members a region has the more money would be paid to it.




    Welcome to hydroracer, we hope you enjoy your visit.

    Comment


    • #17
      Cracks Me Up

      This thread cracks me up. It is the same issues that have been discussed at pretty much every National Meeting APBA has ever had. There is not one new issue that I have seen posted on this website that has not been an issue in the past.

      The tricky part is, who is listening ? The obvious answer is not someone in charge... or the last few decades would have brought about SERIOUS change.

      You know, if APBA wants to continue being what it thinks it is, things better change right now.

      A lot of these saftey rules that are passed onto us without any dis cussion to the members leads to the membership not trusting the leadership. Again I ask, who is listening ?

      Guess what, the hard questions have been answered now. Lets go have fun, with fair rules, good racing, and dam few politics.
      Dave Mason
      Just A Boat Racer

      Comment


      • #18
        Politics...

        I have just completed my first year of racing and i am already overwhelmed by the politics of the sport.
        Its absolutely rediculus..and i read the rules and try to decipher everything and it takes a good long time to make sure you got everything right. Then you just have to hope that nothing changes. I really cant believe that there has to be a meeting every year so that the rules can be changed a little bit more. Just leave them alone. Put a 3 or 5 year lock on the rules, meet evey few years and then discuss what could change it seems like we don't even give it much of a chance to sink in (so to speak), someone just dosent like it and they will change it when winter rolls around ...give people time to fix it on the course before it just becomes a rule.And no matter how you change it someone will figure out a way to get around it. So really how much gets accomplished in the long run? It really is overwhelming for newer people trying to get hooked into the sport. That being said i absolutely love this sport and it is the most fun i've ever had in competition, i'm in this for the long run.And i would like to get involved but at 21, i really don't wanna deal with the politics, its almost like parliment for crying out loud
        So i can see why some of the veteran stopped having fun. It seems like going to the races is more stressful than work, and the only part of the day that is fun is out by the fire pit with a cold drink in hand, talking with friends.

        As for my little insight on the water value issue....
        If people want more water time and don't feel they have had their money's worth, why can't we just do the simplest and easiest thing...just add a lap to each heat. Make it a 4 lap race instead of 3. I'm sure most people carry enough fuel for one more lap. I know my Yamato will with the stock tank. And really how much longer will that make the day go on?

        Respectfully.
        Last edited by me-otch; 01-24-2011, 02:27 PM.
        Mitch Knapton 44-CE
        CMH

        Comment


        • #19
          Let's try this...

          Mitch, we didn't have hydroracer when I started, and we never worried about politics beyond what we needed to change the next year to keep within the rules. My recommendation would be (sorry Theresa and Mike) to stay off hydroracer for the next couple years. For one thing, if your new you should be concentrating on just about everythig BUT poitics. The other thing is that hydroracer.net, for all its good points, is also an echo chamber. In an echo chamber one voice can sound like a hundred, and so it is here. Relax man, your shot at politics will come if you want, but for now ignore it all.


          Originally posted by me-otch View Post
          I have just completed my first year of racing and i am already overwhelmed by the politics of the sport.
          Its absolutely rediculus..and i read the rules and try to decipher everything and it takes a good long time to make sure you got everything right. Then you just have to hope that nothing changes. I really cant believe that there has to be a meeting every year so that the rules can be changed a little bit more. Just leave them alone. Put a 3 or 5 year lock on the rules, meet evey few years and then discuss what could change it seems like we don't even give it much of a chance to sink in (so to speak), someone just dosent like it and they will change it when winter rolls around ...give people time to fix it on the course before it just becomes a rule.And no matter how you change it someone will figure out a way to get around it. So really how much gets accomplished in the long run? It really is overwhelming for newer people trying to get hooked into the sport. That being said i absolutely love this sport and it is the most fun i've ever had in competition, i'm in this for the long run.And i would like to get involved but at 21, i really don't wanna deal with the politics, its almost like parliment for crying out loud
          So i can see why some of the veteran stopped having fun. It seems like going to the races is more stressful than work, and the only part of the day that is fun is out by the fire pit with a cold drink in hand, talking with friends.

          As for my little insight on the water value issue....
          If people want more water time and don't feel they have had their money's worth, why can't we just do the simplest and easiest thing...just add a lap to each heat. Make it a 4 lap race instead of 3. I'm sure most people carry enough fuel for one more lap. I know my Yamato will with the stock tank. And really how much longer will that make the day go on?

          Respectfully.
          Moby Grape Racing
          "Fast Boats Driven Hard"



          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by propnuts View Post
            Mitch, we didn't have hydroracer when I started, and we never worried about politics beyond what we needed to change the next year to keep within the rules. My recommendation would be (sorry Theresa and Mike) to stay off hydroracer for the next couple years. For one thing, if your new you should be concentrating on just about everythig BUT poitics. The other thing is that hydroracer.net, for all its good points, is also an echo chamber. In an echo chamber one voice can sound like a hundred, and so it is here. Relax man, your shot at politics will come if you want, but for now ignore it all.
            What he said X2! Just have fun for now!

            Comment


            • #21
              Or just don't reply to policy type posts. I don't believe that such discussions here on hydroracer actually are part of the ruin of stock outboard racing. Hydroracer.net is what got us involved in boat racing, helped us find our first boat and grow from there. We now own 6 boats, this web site and Montana RaceCraft. All because we found hydroracer.net.

              I guess if you don't want to partipate in the discussions it is easy, don't log on. I think that the benefits of hydroracer far out weigh any negatives. We have 6000+ members, not all are active posters, many just read or "lurk".

              It is a great (free) way to get information out to members of all sanctioning bodies. I do however see that we get off topic in many threads and they take a path not intended by the creator.




              Welcome to hydroracer, we hope you enjoy your visit.

              Comment


              • #22
                With all do respect i am having fun and i no matter how much politics are involved i will continue, my point being i know the state that boat racing is in at this time and i care! I watched this site for a quite a few years before i got into a raceboat and i'm sure many others have done or are doing the same. I know that whenever i meet someone who asks about my boat when i'm out testing and they ask where they can find out more about the sport this is the first place i send them!
                So no offence but this is not just a website where everyone can bicker at one another its also where more than a few people turn to for help or information and some good stories and pictures. So to telling me to NOT go on hydroracer.net for a few years is not the kind of respose i want to hear.

                we never worried about politics beyond what we needed to change the next year to keep within the rules
                my point exactly! why should you have to worry about conforming to the ever changing rulebook every year?!


                I'm not trying to start a p!$$!#& match here.Like i said i care about what happens to boat racing just like anyone else should who is envolved, and i'm new..so its kinda like i'm on the outside looking in, but i'm on the inside to.So take what i am saying for what it is and not as a shot at anyone.

                respectfully submitted.
                Mitch Knapton 44-CE
                CMH

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by raceright View Post
                  ****

                  Resperectly

                  Pat Wright
                  Pat: What is "Resperectly"???
                  14-H

                  "That is NOT why people hate me." - 14-H.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by me-otch View Post
                    ***

                    politics, its almost like parliment for crying out loud

                    ***Respectfully.
                    Mitch: What is parliament? Your audience is mostly Americans!
                    14-H

                    "That is NOT why people hate me." - 14-H.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hydro-racer is the best thing going. It's just about the only place where you can say what you are thinking and not be rudely interrupted... or feel guilty that you have been hogging the floor like you would feel if speaking during a meeting.

                      Secondly, right at this moment there are 58 people logged on to any one of more than two dozen forums or venues on HR, not just this one.

                      When I got back into racing after a 40 plus year absence this site is where I asked a lot of dumb sounding questions.... even to the extreme of asking if anyone happened to have my old 55H #984719. I don't think the politics etc is going to scare any one off who really has a desire to get into racing. Desire is a key word here. Not just curiosity. Racing is not for the timid. Sorry. Everyone can't be a winner.. sorry!! At least not all of the time. And, getting started, guess what.... you're going to be a loser, most of the time. Any newby's reading this? I hope so. Because the newby I'm speaking to is the one who says... "I've got news for you Sport... I'm gonna blow your doors off". And, that folks, is the spirit of racing.

                      We need to keep the costs down and quit making up rules for unsubstantiated reasons which cost people money. We complain about not publicizing our sport... well, the only people who can get Propeller Magazine are those who are some kind of member. Maybe some more thought needs to be given to making it a magazine rack publication so anyone could buy it. Let advertisers pay for it for us. Just a thought.

                      See you in Detroit
                      Alex
                      Commissioner, Stock Outb Reg. One
                      Last edited by ram95; 01-24-2011, 08:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Mitch: What is parliament? Your audience is mostly Americans!
                        haha oops that would be my mistake...got caught up in my own thoughs! i'll remember next time! and sorry for the any spelling mistakes..forgot to proof read..i'll fix.

                        I really enjoy this site and i also have this site to thank for my first boat as well, i'm not knockin this site and i don't mean that the topics posted on this site are what is contributing to the dying membership, that answer was posted in the article that sponsonhead posted at the begining.... and i did read it. I'm just offering my opinion based on what i have read on this site from different people who share the same sort of perspective.

                        Just so we're clear i am in no way *****in' because i cant be a front runner after 1 season, i got one taste of first place in a 3 boat parade one time and i don't consider it a win at all. i understand that it takes time to be outfront and i am willing to put in the time so that i can be someday.I never had it in my mind that i would be a winner at my first race, i just raced the guy in front of me and thats all. I love the thrill of the chase, so as long as i'm chasing someone or chasing that last mile per hour i can't see me getting tired of it! And losing just means i got more thing to learn before i can run out front, i don't mind learning and i like it when other racers give me a little advise here and there,a little help goes a long way in this sport. In all Honesty most of the boat racers i have met over the past year are more willing to help out than most of the teachers i've had in school! Even the racers that i've met on this website, or over the phone, which i have never met in person.
                        I sit here in -26F and i can't wait for the ice to clear... so next to all my new competators in CMH next season....
                        "I Hope You Brought Your Wood Screws"!

                        cheers!
                        Last edited by me-otch; 01-24-2011, 10:00 PM.
                        Mitch Knapton 44-CE
                        CMH

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 14-H View Post
                          Pat: What is "Resperectly"???
                          I knew I spelled that wrong--I can spell Roofer--lawyer--and Beer
                          Ya Better Hide lol
                          Last edited by raceright; 01-25-2011, 04:44 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mrs blueskyracer View Post
                            Pat (Wright),

                            You are talking about pieces of equipment that can be used more than 6 weekends a year, most of the time without extensive travel. I still think it is a matter of spending funds where they can be best utilized and that isn't on boat racing. Quads and dirt bikes are year around items, jet skis can be used anywhere, no safety gear or sanctions required and can be on the water 7 days a week if you are so inclined. Snowmobiles are a little more limited but you can still use them without safety gear and sanctions and you don't have to be part of a "group" to enjoy one.

                            You can pick most of those items up for the same expense as an equiped raceboat and you can use them as often as you like without restriction.
                            This is exactly why my son will not commit to investing in boat racing other than occasionally running my stuff. He sees too much instability in our sport and his quote: " Why would I put my money in that when I can take my dirt bike and quad out anywhere, anytime I want without all the bulls**t".........I keep working on him though. Its in my blood!!

                            Gootz

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gootz 142M View Post
                              This is exactly why my son will not commit to investing in boat racing other than occasionally running my stuff. He sees too much instability in our sport and his quote: " Why would I put my money in that when I can take my dirt bike and quad out anywhere, anytime I want without all the bulls**t".........I keep working on him though. Its in my blood!!

                              Gootz
                              What you are talking about is for the most part,playin with toys not racing with maybe 11 other competitors. I use this example to show that the money is there and you just confirmed that as your son has purchased his own toys.

                              I too have a son that very few fellow racers know about (ricky) he also is a motor head who is into street machines. He has driven a osy, did nothing for him--he said boring and ya can not do it enough--but he loves those crotch rockets.


                              I have driven those things he own's and there crazy fast,toooo dangerous for me--only Jimmy and Rick drive those things in our family--David sometimes races a Capsule,Danny only plays with 4 wheel drive Quad (he flipped a OSY and said not for me)
                              I use these examples in an effort to show that there are many different strokes for different folks.
                              The social aspects of just playing with toys not racing is also different--being with 50 to 100 friends for several long weekends is one of the best reasons most race and not just play (playing ya might have two,three friends most of the time).


                              You see some think time on a machine is what it is all about not Quality on a race machine--again racers VS players. Oh I know ya can race some of this stuff.
                              Ricky has a Banchee and we raced it for a while--I hated it and he could care less, so that ended.

                              But is all this typing gonna change things--probably not as the core problems are toooo hard to change

                              Pat Wright
                              Killiand Red ED

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                concerning

                                I'll be careful to spell correctly and be in an American context for our legal department.

                                This survey shows a churn rate new membership vs. lost membership of approx. 8%. But still declining 21% from 1990 to 1993. That is an alarming rate.

                                Although we have been declining it is slightly slower. One possible reason is our core racers have stayed in place.

                                The question is:
                                Is our core made up of racers that race on a very small budget that could never absorb the expense of a new motor?

                                Or, Is our core the Allens, Miskericks, Runnes, Hearns, Paters, Clarks, Nourys, Tates, Sweenys...that are very competitive and are willing to spend a couple of dollars to stay that way.

                                I do not name names to embarrass or single out, but these are a few family names (and there are more) that came to mind when we look at highpoints and National Championships?

                                Is our core group of racers made up of drivers that race within the boundaries of their own Region 1 to 3 times per year?

                                Or, is our core the folks that bundle up, saddle up, team up and driver to multiple regions several weekends per year?

                                After you make that determination - What is our target audience? I believe you will find that you will find that the path for the future success of APBA is charted through our multi region competitive racers.

                                Make a small core of National single motor classes to have a premium short program. Then support it with local classes or local races.

                                I my opinion every member has a value, but every single member in APBA has a different expectation of return from the organization. If you want to be a National Champion buy equipment in a National class. If you want to be a local racer than some a few dollars, target equipment that is reliable and fun to race on the local stage or can be combined with National Classes and not for points.

                                It is not a dig, it is not about money. The most competitive National platform class is our premier class in the Stock category. CSH. If that ended up to be the only National class then I would liquidate every racing thing I own to just get that equipment and be as competitive as I could.

                                You cannot sit in a local class and wish it on the rest of the country and continue to have APBA support all of the administrative expense to hang on to a class we cannot get new drivers competitive in because motors are not available.

                                Survey Group 1-3 years. Key answer "NOT COMPETITIVE"

                                Yamato 302
                                Sidewinder A
                                Tohatsu

                                Mercury in AXS and J

                                New drivers can be competitive.

                                30 year old motors machines to the max, tested through 100 to get one, very limited availability? New drivers cannot compete.
                                Last edited by reed28n; 01-25-2011, 07:26 AM.

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