New C stock class proposal

[Matt Dagostino]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Dean,
Maybe you are just wasting your money. I know a few STOCK Yamatos have won or done very well at recent Nationals. No lie.

Reality is that it's racing and people will always find ways to spend as much money as they like. The point I continue to try and make is that you can be very competitive with a Stock Y302 and not spend 1000s on blueprinting.

Call it a "lie" call it "BS" call it whatever you want...you don't need to spend $1000s on blueprinting a Yamato to be competitive.

- Mike Pavlick

Dear Mike
I am 100% with Dean on this one............Mel and i have been through three 302 motors in various stages of 'blueprinting' and they still are still not as fast as our 102's.

I think TJ quoted a price of $3100(base motor plus race prep) for a completely tricked out 302 engine which sounds fair to me. To think you can take a out of the box 302 and go beat or even be competitive with a top 102 in CSH seems unlikely. But then again guess we have to define the word 'competitive' as you use it. I see competitive as meaning the 302 is even with the 'BEST' 102's out there. As you know i am a big 302 and Yamato supporter. Maybe this is the year we can make the 302 the motor of choice in both 20ssh and CSH somehow!! Lol. See you at the bar in Detroit!!

[blueskyracer]

Does any of this really matter. No sense pissing off your friends because nothing will change and if it does recently it makes things worse or get rescinded the next year.

I know for a fact that one boat this year won a national title with out being blueprinted or shaved but had a shaped foot and it was a 302. But this has nothing to do with the topic of starting a true stock class other than the fact that with a new class you will have to buy a motor from RPM Marine just to get a true stock motor cause nobody out there racing right now has one!

So in the end come on over to MOD. I did and we are always looking for a few more good folks. In fact if you have read a lot of other posts a lot of folks are changing or adding MOD to there program.

[pav225]

Csh

Mike,
Thanks for getting us back on track!
- Mike

P.S. Out of curiosity, did JMK win CSH with a Y102 or Y302?

[Shep]

Think about this

I think we are missing the target. We are talking about how to get new racers in boats right?

The guy that has NEVER raced before probabally has very limited skill to start with. It is not unreasonable to have them buy a STOCK 302 with the gear case mods and go out learn to drive and be competitive. Will they win probably not, but that's because of a lack of driving skills not motor.

Driving boats fast is hard. Not many truly new racers can do it. It's the same In opc.

Any current racer knows or should know what it takes to win when they step to the next class. I read Charlie Pater's post earlier and I agree HP is nice but knowing how to drive is way more important.

My 2 cents

Shep

[blueskyracer]

Mike,
Thanks for getting us back on track!
- Mike

P.S. Out of curiosity, did JMK win CSH with a Y102 or Y302?

for sure 302

[Racerkyle20]

Dear Mike
I am 100% with Dean on this one............Mel and i have been through three 302 motors in various stages of 'blueprinting' and they still are still not as fast as our 102's.

I think TJ quoted a price of $3100(base motor plus race prep) for a completely tricked out 302 engine which sounds fair to me. To think you can take a out of the box 302 and go beat or even be competitive with a top 102 in CSH seems unlikely. But then again guess we have to define the word 'competitive' as you use it. I see competitive as meaning the 302 is even with the 'BEST' 102's out there. As you know i am a big 302 and Yamato supporter. Maybe this is the year we can make the 302 the motor of choice in both 20ssh and CSH somehow!! Lol. See you at the bar in Detroit!!

Matt, maybe you should come race out west....a 302 is the motor of choice. And i'm pretty sure CSH winners 3 out of last 4 years at nationals have been region 10 302's (07/08 perman, 10 JMK)...just sayin. oh and the CSR 2010 nationals top 5 were all 302's.

[B Walker]

102's have more top end, 302's have better accelleration. I believe the 302's have better lap times except on the longest courses like Whitney Pt, NY and Wakefield, WI.

The shorter the course the more the 302 has an advantage.

But ya still have to drive it!

BW

[thepiranhabros]

I can help with about 25% of the 20,000.00....sell me 225-V

Nice try, Don!

[Original Looper 1]

The Things We Do

Heat treating and re-machining the taper and side clearance of the piston.

Re-machining the ring grove and pin location of piston.

Heat intensified, stress relieving and straitening of crankshaft, $50 per cylinder.

Removing cylinder sleeve and concentrically re-machining and reinstalling with 0 interference, $75 per cylinder.

Alignment boring and decking of cylinder and crankcase - one cylinder $175, two cylinder $250, three cylinder $300 and four cylinder $350.

Machine boring and micro polishing of cylinder bore, $75 per cylinder.

These are just some of the services we performed on winning Mercs, Johnsons, Evinrudes, Konigs, Yamatos and Quincy Looper and Z engines.

Will these efforts help some box stockers too? Absolutely.

I commend what some of you are trying to do for boat racing.

At Quincy Welding, my father always told me: for some - cost is something, for most - cost is everything.


Regards,

Paul A Christner

[Racerkyle20]

102's have more top end, 302's have better accelleration. I believe the 302's have better lap times except on the longest courses like Whitney Pt, NY and Wakefield, WI.

The shorter the course the more the 302 has an advantage.

But ya still have to drive it!

BW

How do you explain perman (with a 302) winning CSH at Whitney point in 2008? And i can tell you he didn't 'slide' into it....he was the fastest there...

And I know how fast john peeters is in OSY with the byrnes 302...that's prop and wieght, but it's still the fastest yamato rig in the country hands down, top end and acceleration with a 302.

[daveracerdsh]

new class

We are getting off track here...Like I said in an earlier post..I did not want this to turn into a pissing match over machine work on racing motors...which this thread has done. We need to focus on not who does what with whatever motor, or how much it cost in machine work, but on getting new people into race rigs. Plain and simple. If I was a new racer I would read some of the posts in this thread and go..."what on earth am I getting myself into" This is what myself and other people helping me are trying to avoid. We need to keep it simple....and easy for new people to understand. What I am looking for here is not which motor is faster on whatever course (102 vs 302) but what is going to work for a new class to get people into race rigs, which is something we are not doing in my opinion. This is not meant as a slam against anybody...but I need more info to help me with all of this. Thanx

[B Walker]

Kyle, the west coast is in the middle of rewriting the C-Stock rulebook. I watched you come to FL last year for the Winter Nationals and dominate CSH with a 302 in a way I have not seen in years.

When you came across the finish line the second place boat was just coming out of the second turn. This was on a med to large course. You just dont see that kind of domination in the Yamato classes very often.

That said, at least in runabout, my best 302 is still 1 MPH off top end from the best guys with a 102. But I eat their lunch in the turns.

West coast knows their 302's and they are the only Regions with membership growth. You guys out there are doing things right.

Ali G says "westside" just for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oesOC7JvcwQ

Beers on me next time I see ya Kyle

Brad Walker

[Shep]

I agree

We are getting off track here...Like I said in an earlier post..I did not want this to turn into a pissing match over machine work on racing motors...which this thread has done. We need to focus on not who does what with whatever motor, or how much it cost in machine work, but on getting new people into race rigs. Plain and simple. If I was a new racer I would read some of the posts in this thread and go..."what on earth am I getting myself into" This is what myself and other people helping me are trying to avoid. We need to keep it simple....and easy for new people to understand. What I am looking for here is not which motor is faster on whatever course (102 vs 302) but what is going to work for a new class to get people into race rigs, which is something we are not doing in my opinion. This is not meant as a slam against anybody...but I need more info to help me with all of this. Thanx

If a guy can get an readily available 302, find a decent used boat, and a decent prop that's all he needs for the first year if he's never raced. It takes at least that long to learn to drive. The biggest gains my son Michael has made is in his driving skills - not motor. We've worked far harder at driving than getting more out of the motor.

Shep

[propnuts]

My final thought for Dave and Kyle

I think if we're trying to keep costs down and/or give the new guy a shot this is what I would do. Start with a spec prop drawn out of a hat like J. That way a guy can start with a 2500-3000 dollar Yamato, couple thousand (or way less) for boat, safety gear, dolly trailer etc, and go racing. Basically we can get a guy on the water for under 5K. The next thing we do is make a Novice C class, only open to drivers that won less than 2 races last year (this way we cover a guy that might have backed into a win via jumpers and such). You can race this class until you win twice, then you are done, hopefully by then the novice is ready to buy props and go CSH racing. It requires an influx of new drivers to keep the class going, but I think in our region at least we could go a year easy without worrying about the class having a decent field. I can tell you that I would be out of my pit and watching this class EVERY time it was run, I think it would just be awesome.

[krazy karl]

Spectator Interest

Some of the most watched races in Region 11 from the pits has been the NorCal 400 races. Generally close races due to equality of equipment, only racer expertise or really lack of made these races a real blast to watch. It is really fun to crew for one of these boats to hear the comments when they come in. The most used phrase is "Man that was awesome". One of the most exciting races was the one where we had all the Cracker drivers and their pit crew members driving.
kk