SO class reduction proposal, lithium version

[14J]

I can get a golf membership at a near by club for less money than it cost me to race a season of Stock Outboard. People are all playing the same game by the same rules. The course is in the same place each time I play and I can be home by 2:00.

I might be better at golf. And they have beer too!

Merry Christmas...

Sold. Let me know when the snow melts.

[Doug4N]

Troy

Maybe you should show up and see what they are doing first hand. You could always just pick up the phone too.

Respectfully Submitted

Doug 4N

[raceright]

Pat no offense to you or USTS since they have something that works for those select few, but (I know you'll correct me if I am wrong )Don't the majority of the USTS classes race either Sat or Sun but not both?

So if I am correct you get to test all day Friday then get 3 heats of racing (if you only run 1 class) over the whole weekend?

Howie

Thats correct and most Pro drivers are happy with this--those who wish more time in a boat get another engine or boat and engine,,

You have to understand the modern alky engines have alot of prep work and many drivers have a team of sorts and take hours preparing--to Pro people making there boat preform is just as desired as driving.

And when you come in after 3 heats of 250 hydro (for example) ya have to be in special shape to race another class the same day under 30 helps.

For example our team usually runs 500 runabout and hydro on saturday and 1100cchydro on sunday. This takes all moring to setup rig and requires 2 to 4 mechanics to prepare..Race time requires at least 3 people but most teams help each other if short handed expecialy the capsule classes.
Come to Ocoee and see for your self---there is a completely diferent mind set within the modern alky racing.

[B1PRORACER]

Pro racing....

Howie-Pro racing is just a little different.
Let me explain: The USTS was started when Pro racing was in much worse shape than we think Stock racing is now. Few people were buying new equipment and racing in local races (usually in Stock races). Several people got together in an effort to "save" Pro racing. They decided to create a show featuring a select number of popular PRO classes. They then decided that there were too many classes to run them ALL in one day. The program became a one day race spread over two days. Races sponsored, prize money for half the field -prorated to the number of boats in each class and tow money... They make the rules, they pay the money and you do as they want- it works! The result is that you win "THE" PRO250ccH race at Kingston, TN. It is an event! The PRO250ccH class ALWAYS raced on Sunday (the schedule was ALWAYS the same), so I would test on Friday and Saturday morning, then watch and help. Eventually, I bought a PRO250ccR boat (PRO250ccR ALWAYS race on Saturdays)- so I raced the runabout on Sat. and the hydro on Sun. At first it was with the same engine! Don't get fooled-these engines aren't that difficult to have fun with!!!!!!

[Howie Nichols]

Pat & Peter,

I have been to several USTS races. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the people, I enjoy the racing, I even enjoy tinkering but not at the extent of replacing multiple pistons on race day. The amount of work involved in the PRO rigs is close to what we were doing with the OPC boats in the series racing I did. It also sounds like the USTS program is very close to what OPC series are doing as well, but we typically got tow money and prize money and also had testing both days (occassionally Friday's) 2 heats of 10 or 15 laps each on Sat and then a 20 or 30 lap final Sunday.

I am not discounting what you guys are doing but for me I want to have boat time and not at the end of a rope. It seems like an awful lot of Ray's stories this summer were ... class had 13-15 entries and at the end of the day xxx was able to put 3 heats together for the win while xxx had 2 heats for 2nd and so and so didnt make heat 2 due to an engine failure.

I want to race as much as I can when I do race. If I were the only driver in the family who knows I may have stayed with the OPC stuff, but now I more than happy to be back in the Stock ranks. I have even left my stuff on the trailer to concentrate more on what Becky is doing (that has become more fun than doing it myself.)

I'm glad people have the USTS to race with and they are enjoying it, now if we can just find that same niche for everyone...

[raceright]

Pat & Peter,

I have been to several USTS races. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the people, I enjoy the racing, I even enjoy tinkering but not at the extent of replacing multiple pistons on race day. The amount of work involved in the PRO rigs is close to what we were doing with the OPC boats in the series racing I did. It also sounds like the USTS program is very close to what OPC series are doing as well, but we typically got tow money and prize money and also had testing both days (occassionally Friday's) 2 heats of 10 or 15 laps each on Sat and then a 20 or 30 lap final Sunday.

I am not discounting what you guys are doing but for me I want to have boat time and not at the end of a rope. It seems like an awful lot of Ray's stories this summer were ... class had 13-15 entries and at the end of the day xxx was able to put 3 heats together for the win while xxx had 2 heats for 2nd and so and so didnt make heat 2 due to an engine failure.

I want to race as much as I can when I do race. If I were the only driver in the family who knows I may have stayed with the OPC stuff, but now I more than happy to be back in the Stock ranks. I have even left my stuff on the trailer to concentrate more on what Becky is doing (that has become more fun than doing it myself.)

I'm glad people have the USTS to race with and they are enjoying it, now if we can just find that same niche for everyone...

Howie thanks for the compliments..
We in Pro racing race Pro because we do not like rules-and enjoy tinkering with our engines. Some of us are incredable machinest (not me thanks for good friends) welders and the like. But all wish to play with our rigs. With the advent of the electric starter and multiple engine MFG's our rigs that finish all three heats have greatly increased in recent years.

Speed Speed Speed is what it's all about--250's now running at 100
who would of ever believed that 20 years ago..1100's Mckean kilo"d at 130
(and trust me he is just as fast in competition) Driving these rigs is pretty exhausting so many times when I drove at my age (63 uggg) I was glad to see the last lap of the third heatlololo.
For most of us its not about the amount of laps but the sense of accomplishment of making your rig compete with a group of friends that are like family.

It is much more work to keep a Pro rig running but again it adds to the pleasure of running Pro and every USTS race is like a MINI nationals.
Merry Christmas

Pat Wright
In the end there can only be one

[reed28n]

Pat touches on something in his post

While some of the kneeling down has gone from Pro for safety reason, when we look at Stock, Mod and Pro. There is really something for everyone. I believe one of the issues in Stock alone right now is that this category was based on rules that restricted the use of equipment in an attempt to have a level playing field.

Now, people want to change that because they want to bring the mod or pro culture into Stock. I am not saying whether it is right or wrong it is just a fact.

Truth be told the natural progression of a stock motor should be obsoletion from stock making that power unit available for mod. And if you are not intersted in rules and motor selection just make your cc's and equipment match the safety rules of the Pro category.

The appeal of Stock outbaord has diminished by hanging on to motors that need tons of non oem parts to patch them together.

Every other form of racing has a rules committee that establishes what the power will be for the class, and every other form of race motor sport has made its way to cable TV and continues to flourish. People can identify or find information about currently manufactured equipment.

Ask yourself what is best for the health of Stock Outboard. Is is for me to buy three props, a new boat, a new enlosed trailer and a new tow vehicle or is it to sell my used motor that I have received 30 years of use out of and buy a new motor, work on props, put the new boat off for a year and let that current trailer get you a few more races.

It is not enough for you to just want what you want because you have something or you want it. It is about the health of the whole of our sport and moving forward. It is not about one racer running his one rig in three different classes, it is about having a package that we may be able to market in the future. It is not about always racing at your favorite pond 20 miles from town, it is about getting a venue where the conditions may not be ideal but attract people to watch and get a taste of what we do.

With current racers we have enough bricks to build a structure reaching up into the future but we have too many racers that want to use them as pavers to build a sidewalk to no where.

[dholt]

Hey Scott, tell me something that's really important.

What's your handicap?

Sounds like you've spent more time on the links than on the water.

Kind of like I was this past season...and not to unhappy about it either.

D.

[raceright]

While some of the kneeling down has gone from Pro for safety reason, when we look at Stock, Mod and Pro. There is really something for everyone. I believe one of the issues in Stock alone right now is that this category was based on rules that restricted the use of equipment in an attempt to have a level playing field.

Now, people want to change that because they want to bring the mod or pro culture into Stock. I am not saying whether it is right or wrong it is just a fact.

Truth be told the natural progression of a stock motor should be obsoletion from stock making that power unit available for mod. And if you are not intersted in rules and motor selection just make your cc's and equipment match the safety rules of the Pro category.

The appeal of Stock outbaord has diminished by hanging on to motors that need tons of non oem parts to patch them together.

Every other form of racing has a rules committee that establishes what the power will be for the class, and every other form of race motor sport has made its way to cable TV and continues to flourish. People can identify or find information about currently manufactured equipment.

Ask yourself what is best for the health of Stock Outboard. Is is for me to buy three props, a new boat, a new enlosed trailer and a new tow vehicle or is it to sell my used motor that I have received 30 years of use out of and buy a new motor, work on props, put the new boat off for a year and let that current trailer get you a few more races.

It is not enough for you to just want what you want because you have something or you want it. It is about the health of the whole of our sport and moving forward. It is not about one racer running his one rig in three different classes, it is about having a package that we may be able to market in the future. It is not about always racing at your favorite pond 20 miles from town, it is about getting a venue where the conditions may not be ideal but attract people to watch and get a taste of what we do.

With current racers we have enough bricks to build a structure reaching up into the future but we have too many racers that want to use them as pavers to build a sidewalk to no where.

Wow very well put Scottie Boy

[reed28n]

Water Time

Hey Scott, tell me something that's really important.

What's your handicap?

Sounds like you've spent more time on the links than on the water.

Kind of like I was this past season...and not to unhappy about it either.

D.

Last two years, I started a new job in a new city, moved my family into a new home and a new school. Housing market stunk. Almost have the house we moved in repainted and mildly remodeled on my own because I can't afford to contract it out and go racing.

I had commitmments to build two boats but had to rebuild, insulate and heat my garage. I have been helping local racers with their stuff.

If you think I have been happy about not racing, you really don't know me. Links are easy to access....races have been out of my reach for a bit.

If we are going judge peoples opinions on how many races they attend, then we really need to take a hard look at how many times a motor is raced that we are trying to keep around for one or two guys.

Merry Christmas!

[aojesus]

Is all the class restructuring really going to save the sport? Is it really going to help the marketability? I broke down our 2010 season as follows;
We updated our stuff and bought.....

1 new Sorenson JR
1 used B&H hydro (freekin rocket in J)
1 used Racecraft runabout in excellent shape
2 OMC's
1 Merc J

We traveled 5,109 miles
We raced in 6 different states
We bought 365 gallons of gas @ approx $2.80 a gallon for the truck
We spent 76 hours on the highway

Not including entry fees, APBA memberships for 2 kids and food and motel expenses we spent $11,000 on the 2010 racing season.

Joe and Amy combined, raced 43 heats. Divide the money by the heats and you get $255.81 per heat.

These numbers are very close in comparison to what a new family would spend their first season of racing. The following season the numbers would be more like $65 per heat.

I just don't see how class reduction and mandating more expensive equipment is going to make our sport more marketable when you look at the "bottom line".

For all fairness please keep in mind that judging by standards listed in some other threads "Sibling Rivalry Racing Team" is not a "REAL" racing team because we only raced at 6 race sites this season. A "REAL" team would certainly spend more per season than us "WANNABEES".

[reed28n]

Russell

The class reduction is a plan to make a program that is more attractive. You have your kids in a category that promotes a new motor and does not apologize for it. The J category consistently out performs other categories in recruiting.

I believe a key factor is a limited choice of classes. I believe that Stock Outboard could do a small number of things really really well. When we spread our resources over 18-21 classes at an event and work to parity 15 motor combinations and inspect all of these heights and weights and cc's and rounded pickles we will over burden our volunteers and we won't do these things very well at all.

I think too many motor and boat options confuses a new guy trying to get involved.

The flip side of all of your travel.......what if a new guy buys something that is not popular in his region? He could spend all of that time and money to go to races and watch Sibling rivalry races.

The promotion aspect is as much to our members as it is to spectators and potential racers. I have owned a CSH because I know that no matter what race I attend there will enough to race.

How many more races could you attend if you had two boats and two motors and they let you race it 4 times in one weekend?

It is only a point of view.....

[dholt]

Hey Scott, I was seriously asking you what your handicap is. Don't go reading between the lines, my friend. You know me...I'm a straight shooter.

Just sounded like you been hitting the links like me...which is far greater ROI than boat racing.

Take 'er easy, dude.

[aojesus]

It is only a point of view.....

Scott,
While I may not agree with some of your points of view I hope you never lose sight of the fact that I know your true reasoning. The bottom line is that you are passionate about the survival of our sport. This is obvious because A) I have know you since childhood and everything you ever do is always in the hopes of making something better for all involved.
B) You have nothing to gain personally by class reduction/restructuring.

I will always respect your point of view, may not agree all the time, but I will respect it.

As for spending money to sit on the beach and watch because there is nobody running your class....Amy didn't get to run at Taunton or Crystal Lake because KPro wasn't on the schedule and Her and Joey were the only J runabouts. We know the feeling, it is part of the game.

Have a Merry Christmas and please give the family our best wishes!
Tell your uncle 90N we say hello also!

[B1PRORACER]

I don't want people to get the wrong idea.....

Howie-

I wanted to get back to the discussion that you had about running in the PRO division. They might not be for everyone. In many ways, running a Pro Division boat is the same as running any Stock Division boat and the same philosophy that allows you to win in Stock racing will also work in Pro racing.
My success in the Pro Division was a direct result of what I learned running Stocks. Stock drivers make successful Pro drivers.....

Having raced in the Stock Division for so many years, I learned about set-ups and propellers. It was all about making a boat go fast with very little horsepower! All of that knowledge can be applied directly to Pro boats.

I don’t want people to think that you need to have a welder and machinist available to race these Pro engines. These engines aren’t too complicated or hard to run. My program was very simple. I realized that those who do the designing, testing and production of these engines know A LOT more about engine design than I do! They also work very hard to make every engine competitive and reliable. What I did was buy a brand new engine and raced it just the way it came out of the box! It was more of a “Stock” outboard than most of the Stock Outboards! All you need to do is keep up with the maintenance of these engines and you will be reliable and competitive. The biggest trick that you will need to learn is how to jet these engines. A little too lean and you will need to install a new piston and ring. Fortunately, the engines are designed to be easily worked on. A new piston can be changed in about ˝ hour. Todays engines are reliable and will run a lot of races before they need a complete overhaul.

Peter Crowley