SO class reduction proposal, lithium version

[Doug4N]

Maybe we should just leave the class structure alone Dean, we have bigger problems these days. I guess I need to point out that we need more racers. Decreasing the number of classes is not going to bring in new blood. It is going to upset people, myself included and chase even more people out of stock outboard. I am a 25SSH racer and would gladly put my motor on the rack for the good of the whole. This class reduction and " nationally raced" status is a waste of time and a detriment to the sport. Not good enough a reason to shelve my rig. I drive just as far and pay just as much, I should be able to put a 1 or 2 US on my boat too. 25SSH does in the northeast what 45SS does for the west coast clubs, it brings in entry fees and gets the rest of the 400 of us who are left a few heats of racing.

Some more food for thought, I don't like watching 4 boat classes either so why don't we make a 5 boat minimum and allow step ups. For you points chasers, step up points would not count toward divisional or national awards.

We should be working toward promoting our sport and finding new ways of attracting new members.



Doug Pearsall 4 N

[Matt Dagostino]

The Silent Majority Speaks......

Agreed. This class reduction discussion has been going on for 30 years and the time to make a National move has come and gone. We are in no position with to be upseting 25% of our scant 500 members for the sake of 'future' members laying in waiting to be Stock Outboard members........growth has to come from within and be supplemented from the outside. Focusing on improving local races and cutting costs to the faithful current members should be the priority.

Paying APBA $3000 for sanction and insurance fees for a local race is a big part of why clubs are struggling. And passing the cost in the form of $30-40 per class entry fees to the drivers makes it tough on all of us........

I certainly don't have the 'ANSWER' to our decline but combining, or essentially eliminating a couple classes and pissing off many of our current loyal members does not have my vote!

Matt D.
Region 4 Commissioner

[aojesus]

Some more food for thought, I don't like watching 4 boat classes either so why don't we make a 5 boat minimum and allow step ups. For you points chasers, step up points would not count toward divisional or national awards.

Doug Pearsall 4 N

We saw this anti-step up rule cost the host club in Taunton some money and a wasted trip for some drivers. If I remember correctly there was going to be a proposal in January to alter this rule that costs clubs entry income.

It was great having supper with you guys at Camp Wlodarski in Taunton. Stay warm and Merry Christmas!

[blueskyracer]

Agreed. This class reduction discussion has been going on for 30 years and the time to make a National move has come and gone. We are in no position with to be upseting 25% of our scant 500 members for the sake of 'future' members laying in waiting to be Stock Outboard members........growth has to come from within and be supplemented from the outside. Focusing on improving local races and cutting costs to the faithful current members should be the priority.

Paying APBA $3000 for sanction and insurance fees for a local race is a big part of why clubs are struggling. And passing the cost in the form of $30-40 per class entry fees to the drivers makes it tough on all of us........

I certainly don't have the 'ANSWER' to our decline but combining, or essentially eliminating a couple classes and pissing off many of our current loyal members does not have my vote!

Matt D.
Region 4 Commissioner

Matt, you are so right the cost to have a race is out of control. That is the whole reason our small group out in Eastern Washington, Idaho and Montana race in another organization. I wonder how many wildcat clubs are out there just cause they can't afford $3000++++ for insurance, sanction, club and ambulance fees. Plus add travel fees to get equipment to the site and many others I have forgotten.

Money or the lack of it is the root of all evil.

[Bill Huson]

Just a thought . . .

the class reduction deal is an attempt to create a "spectator" race program, as in a 3-4 hour event with full heats. What spectators? My WAG is at 80+% of our races the number of pit-pets (racer owned dogs, cats, and whatever) outnumber the spectators. Racers pay the fees and race for points and giggles.

So for most of our races, forget "class reduction". We're paying to play, so lets play and let everyone race. 3 or 4 boat heats? Why not. Dump the clock, flag `em off the beach or on the fly and run a gazillion heats a day.

Or . . . We have to set the specs for limited classes with engines and boats readily available, almost turnkey - prepare for a huge decline in membership, and hope for a turnaround.

[csh12M]

Replies....

I respectfully disagree with every post here.

The need to cut the classes is the biggest priority we have, and now is the best time to do something about it. It effects every other issue we discuss on this board.

To be clear, I do not think the cut is needed because of length of the program for spectators(that would be the least of my concerns). I think it is needed because we are dividing up 200 drivers (that race over three weekends) across 11 classes. We are dividing the pie up into to many pieces. We have diluted the pool to the point that it almost is not feasible, from cost, competition, and fun.

MHRA puts on some of the best races in the country (5 this year) and has built a Racer School program that has pulled in 8 "new name" racers in 4 hosted racer schools. I think we know and understand both the challenges and expenses of running races and the difficulty selling Outboard Racing to "New Name" racers. We run Racer School on Friday, so that the student can then experience racing on Saturday and Sunday. I am almost embarrassed on Saturday when I am "selling" this sport to the "new name" racer. It used to be that we had one or two classes with 4-5 boats. Now the majority of classes are 4-6boat parades. Eight boats seems like a "big" field now.

We have to take steps now while we still can. I feel I have offered valid reasoning and methodology to cover any argument that I have heard on this forum. I have explained the "why" and the "how" this can work, and the long term benefit it will have.

I respect anyone that disagrees, especially if you do it with sound reasoning. However, as I have mentioned several times. If the SO Commission support the proposal it will go to ballot for all the SO members to decide. Any commissioner that does not support this going to ballot is denying the membership from deciding what they want the sport to look like. Let's find out what the "silent" majority really wants and not let a handful of Commissioners tell them all they get is status quo.

Respectfully disagree.
Dean Sutherland
12M

[nbass]

Another View

I do not think a potentially new racer looks favorably on multiple classes of four boat heats. It too often occurs that several classes are inadequately represented for there to be assurance of running the class. Think of buying a used starter boat and engine only to find that the class will not occur in your area this race year, or maybe it will be eliminated by lack of participation. However, with multiple engines available for A,B,C,or D classes, there is good likelihood you will be able to race every time for several years. Not everyone is interested in winning all the time and purchase of an inexpensive used rig just to go with the guys is part of the draw.

Lastly, if something does not change soon, I predict boat racing will be gone in less than ten years.

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

"Lastly, if something does not change soon, I predict boat racing will be gone in less than ten years."

Eliminate classes and it will be a few less.

[nbass]

Maybe But,

"
Eliminate classes and it will be a few less.

Right, if elimination of the boat and engine occurs. However, careful class combinations into A,B,C,D will bring back one here and one there in regions where some classes currently do not reasonably exist. Sort of the concept; if you bring it we will race it. Example: D-mod died in the NW because The Tohatsu was eliminated. However, let them combine and there is a class for the D-mod engine. I think the same condition exists through the stock classes. I think it is worth thoughtful consideration.

[Doug4N]

What good is a new driver if he has nobody to race against. You can't legislate people into a class they don't want to run, they will take their money go elsewhere. I always pick up the phone to make sure there will be a class for me to race the coming weekend. If you want to put on a show at a venue that is not out in the middle of the woods, do what SSOA does, run a limited schedule. You don't always need a full field to put on a good show. Ask the city of Haverhill how they liked the 250's run on what is really 1 pin turns. This sport will never be on wide world of sports. Lets make the most of what we have left. Use that determination to go get new sites where we can be seen. Why is there no such thing as an exhibition event or put out a display at your local cruise night or local fair. Most people have never seen one of these boats and getting some exposure will do a hell of alot more to keep us alive versus "class consolidation"

Respectfully Submitted

Doug Pearsall 4N

[G Stillwill]

Dean and these are your words "I dont see any of the current BSH drivers running with the 20SSH class they will just put pipes on and run AMH " now tell me how this is going to increase that class. Some race both others that is the only stock class they run so the Stock Division will loose another member to the Mod Division. On another note we cry we cant get new motors then someone goes out on a limb and starts building them and we kick it to the curb just as the Stock Division did the with the Merc 15 and look what the J division did with it. If I was Racing Outboards I would be real concerned that if you can do this with one of their motors whos to say it wont happen with another next year

[propnuts]

"Lastly, if something does not change soon, I predict boat racing will be gone in less than ten years."

Eliminate classes and it will be a few less.

So the choice we face is between slow death and slower death, glad we got that cleared up, I feel better now.

[csh12M]

Let me explain...

Dean and these are your words "I dont see any of the current BSH drivers running with the 20SSH class they will just put pipes on and run AMH " now tell me how this is going to increase that class. Some race both others that is the only stock class they run so the Stock Division will loose another member to the Mod Division. On another note we cry we cant get new motors then someone goes out on a limb and starts building them and we kick it to the curb just as the Stock Division did the with the Merc 15 and look what the J division did with it. If I was Racing Outboards I would be real concerned that if you can do this with one of their motors whos to say it wont happen with another next year

Good question George,

Here is why I think that it will ultimately grow the class and grow Sidewinder sales faster. Right now the 170lb driver has several choices in class to race. BSH/BSR or 20SSH or 25SSH/25SSR. The choice they seem to make most often is 20SSH and 25SSR the low cost alternatives to BSH and BSR. Why buy a Sidewinder to race locally when I can buy a Yamato at half the cost and race nationally. Explain how I can tell a "new name" racer to buy a Sidewinder and race in the BSH/BSR classes now as they exist.

If this proposal is supported by the membership the Sidewinder eventually could be the motor of choice in ASH/ASR and BSH/BSR 50% of our categories classes. They wont have the competition and confusion in class choice of 20SSH and 25SSH/25SSR. I do not think the Sidewinder folks see this big picture, but if they step back and look and think about this proposal they will see that it could/should accelerate the acceptance and growth within Stock Outboard.

Dean
12M

[csh12M]

"Lastly, if something does not change soon, I predict boat racing will be gone in less than ten years."

Eliminate classes and it will be a few less.

Pro-Motion,

How do you know that? What arguments are you basing your "quip" on?

I point to the Pro Category as the model SO is following. The Pro-Category has suffered the largest % membership declines of any of the categories over the last 3 decades. Take out your OSY400 numbers and take a hard look at the data. Pro Racing is the coolest ride to watch and the USTS races are as good as it gets, but your Category has been reduced to a small group of dedicated die hard racers that compete in a top notch national series.

Stock Outboard is heading down the exact same path. If that path is what we want, that is fine, but I believe in local racing! I think it is critical to "new name" membership growth. Selling an 6-8K rig to a new person who can race it 5-6 weekends within 3-4 hours of home seems a lot easier than selling the idea of racing 8-10 times around the Nation.

From my point of view the Pro-category is "evidenced proof" of what will happen to SO racing. I think it will exist in ten years, but it will be a handful of people racing at a dozen big races a year around the county.

Dean
12M

[raceright]

What good is a new driver if he has nobody to race against. You can't legislate people into a class they don't want to run, they will take their money go elsewhere. I always pick up the phone to make sure there will be a class for me to race the coming weekend. If you want to put on a show at a venue that is not out in the middle of the woods, do what SSOA does, run a limited schedule. You don't always need a full field to put on a good show. Ask the city of Haverhill how they liked the 250's run on what is really 1 pin turns. This sport will never be on wide world of sports. Lets make the most of what we have left. Use that determination to go get new sites where we can be seen. Why is there no such thing as an exhibition event or put out a display at your local cruise night or local fair. Most people have never seen one of these boats and getting some exposure will do a hell of alot more to keep us alive versus "class consolidation"

Respectfully Submitted



Doug Pearsall 4N

Go get em Doug same bat time same bat channel


Pat

PS Run ya 125lololo