Future is Now

[csh12M]

Implementation

Ok, here is even an interim plan for the implementation. If you did NOTHING else at the National Meeting, legalize the 25SSR as a legal entry in CSR and legalize a current BSH at 12CC in 20SSH. Legalize the 20CI Sidewinder in BSR and BSH with some restrictions.

Now at a club level I could implement the class structure I outlined, by simply not scheduling current 25SSH, 25SSR, BSH. I will still schedule BSR, but it has the addition of the 20CI Sidewinder.

A step in the right direction.

[Kev43V]

I think it will help in lots of ways
Something else I have noticed is that in 2010 we had several people getting a Jump on FAH and leaving ASH. thats ok too. but instead of a 4 boat parade in ASH and a 4-5 boat race in FAH. we should be running them both together.
sure a couple of those run both. but we would still have about a 8 boat race with 1/2 the heats

[dholt]

Dean,

I like your idea. Would not have a problem with the rotary Hot Rod at 12cc's in with the Yamato 80's and restricted 302's.

Your speed numbers are essentially correct. Top end similar. The Hot Rod would be slower on corner speed/punch.

Let's do it.

Who is stepping up for a Mod plan? Look at the numbers and see where improvements can be made. (7) 25 Mod Hydros this year. Several classes really not viable. LOOK at the numbers. How many "true" modified boats are entered in many classes? How often do drivers participate? There is room for improvement in BOTH categories (I still believe should be 1 category).

[Mike Beegle]

I think it will help in lots of ways
Something else I have noticed is that in 2010 we had several people getting a Jump on FAH and leaving ASH. thats ok too. but instead of a 4 boat parade in ASH and a 4-5 boat race in FAH. we should be running them both together.
sure a couple of those run both. but we would still have about a 8 boat race with 1/2 the heats

FAH is a mod class ... Thats why i quit racing stock n mod I had to sit in the patrol boat half the day watching A, Asxh, Fah ,Kpro, with 3 n 4 boat fields ... The same **** engine and people racing over n over going the basically the same speed within 5 mph of each other... oh its time for the mod classes were outa time 1 heat racing... gee thanks that was worth my 10 hour drive... Like Dave Mason said J A B C D back to the basics..

That is one example why you guys have one less number...

[Mike Beegle]

Hillsdale MOD race was super successful. 210 entries for the 3 races in 2 days. Weather was a little wet on Saturday but sunny on Sunday. Thanks to the guys who hauled from Louisiana and Oklahoma. Thanks to the PRO guys who attended.

[csh12M]

Step at a time....

Dana...

Lets not try to boil the ocean, by trying to bring Mod structure in yet. Lets fix the Stock structure let it settle for a year or two and them ask Mod. if they have interest in change? I will run for Commissioner to try and get this agenda in, if you will and support it also. I am going to litmus test the idea with MHRA at Big Rapids for feedback. Maybe this is my way of getting thrown out of MHRA

Dave I agree with almost all your posts concerning combination's with Stock and MOD. I did not take your previous observation as a slam either. Although, I would not call this structure "premier" vrs MOD., just different. I love MOD, I am putting my 250CCR program together this winter. However, I think Stock should be easier to be competitive than MOD. Buy a good new motor and a prop and beat 80% of the people. If that means my motor cost a little more than a MOD motor I am willing to live with that vrs. the ease to compete and get started. Not better, just different.

Dean

[D_Allen_III]

To be honest I skipped a lot of the posts and will go back and read them later, but while I was sitting in my 4th grade classroom I had the thought of race committees and event organization.

Many clubs have different purposes for running the FAH, FAR, ASH, ASH, AXSH, AXSR, JH, JR, all which can be raced with the same engine. We talk about the race program and how boring it can be. I completely agree, at Dayton, Grass Lake, and just about every one of our club races I've seen so many 3-4 boat races it makes me fall asleep, literally. Problem is many clubs need the entries. The race committee can put what ever classes they want on the schedule if I am correct. I've seen several mod races that have the 3-5 premier stock classes on the schedule so it doesn't drag the day on yet they can still draw the entries to the race.

If you put on a race and don't want the same class running over and over, don't put them on the sanction. I know this doesn't fix our problem and we still have the issue at big races and nationals, but the steps can be made to start pushing people away from running the same classes by race committees. If your club wants to run the whole program at location X because you know you won't have any fans or spectators anyway, run them all. If you are a racer who hates watching similar classes out on the water, it's your choice if you want to go to that event. If you have a large race format or put up money to draw people in like Loch Haven where you have 26 CSH entries then don't put the 3-4 boat classes on the sanction.

Like I said, it isn't a long term solution, but we have to remember that sometimes we steal from Peter to pay Paul when we make a national decision to cut a class or combine others. Many clubs won't be able to put on a race if it is nationally enforced rather than a choice made by the club to offer the classes.

[Racerkyle20]

Dana...

Lets not try to boil the ocean, by trying to bring Mod structure in yet. Lets fix the Stock structure let it settle for a year or two and them ask Mod. if they have interest in change? I will run for Commissioner to try and get this agenda in, if you will and support it also. I am going to litmus test the idea with MHRA at Big Rapids for feedback. Maybe this is my way of getting thrown out of MHRA

Dave I agree with almost all your posts concerning combination's with Stock and MOD. I did not take your previous observation as a slam either. Although, I would not call this structure "premier" vrs MOD., just different. I love MOD, I am putting my 250CCR program together this winter. However, I think Stock should be easier to be competitive than MOD. Buy a good new motor and a prop and beat 80% of the people. If that means my motor cost a little more than a MOD motor I am willing to live with that vrs. the ease to compete and get started. Not better, just different.

Dean

I'm running for the stock commission as well. I will support this. I'll start talking to people in region 10 at yelm about class stucture, see where there feedback is.

[bill boyes]

Do not overlook the 3 heat format when running eliminations. Gives the 13 etc boat 2 heats. Sad that a racer travels hundreds of miles to an event and gets one heat. Gives the final 12 3 heats.

[94H]

From a Race Directors viewpoint. all your suggestions will need to be supported by an increase in entry fees. Our $25.00 / class will probably go to $40.00 or more. Dean says MHRA needs a minimum of $4,300 per weekend to operate so that's $36.00 / entry based on 60 entries per day (2 day event). Don't forget we discount the J class to $10.00.

I'm on board with improving knee down boat racing, the end result will be an increase in entry fees until the participation numbers go up.

[Big Don]

Cmon keep them coming, why wont this work?

Thanks,
Dean
CSH12M

Dean most people are not going to come on hear and disagree with a whole lot of what is said on this web site. The one’s that have in that past are sick of being ridiculed for doing so.

It’s just us stubborn ones that keep doing it. And that is not directed at this thread.

[Matt Dagostino]

History..................

Dean most people are not going to come on hear and disagree with a whole lot of what is said on this web site. The one’s that have in that past are sick of being ridiculed for doing so.

It’s just us stubborn ones that keep doing it. And that is not directed at this thread.

Very compelling stuff in this thread. Dean and company are fighting 50 years of Stock Outboard culture. Ed Runne came up with a good term for the way most racers think. He called them 'trailer box protectors'. I witnessed this first hand at Seattle. The Yamato 80 and 102 are now twice as old as your son Donny and my boy Justin!! And yet many in the gallery in Seattle fought to keep these motors the 'motor of choice' in there classes when a new motor is available to be pushed to the front. Leads one to argue we should merge with the Antique Outboard Racing Association. Seems this is where we are headed as long as we nurture 40 year old motors like the Yamato 80, 102 and OMC A!! While it is great to keep these engines in the classes to fill fields, the newer engines are what we should be pushing for. But when we get to the National Meeting, seems this logic goes right down the drain and the "trailer box protectors' rise to the top and win the day!!

Ok Ok............back to work!!

[csh2z]

Dean, Dana, Scott. Are you guys running for commissioner? Are you all going to be at the National Meeting? Your voices need to be heard. After putting a lot of effort into developing a plan for the future of Stock Outboard, I got voted out of the commission because I thought it best to remove an engine from a class that is never used anyway! I'd like to get back on the commission to continue working on a pheasible transition.

[Tim Weber]

Yamato 25ssr vs CSR

I'll have to take Greg's info on the speed of the restricted and non restricted Yamatos and run with it. Mine is about 2 off of the non restricted motor but I am also 25-30 pounds over the weight limit.

This might be a viable option for a smaller guy that doesn't want 50 plus pounds of lead in a boat.

Tim

[Racerkyle20]

Do not overlook the 3 heat format when running eliminations. Gives the 13 etc boat 2 heats. Sad that a racer travels hundreds of miles to an event and gets one heat. Gives the final 12 3 heats.

I don't think someone would be eliminated in one heat. The whole point on this stucture is to combine classes and run more qualification heats before cutting to a max 12 boat feild (or whatever the race course size is). I think a 3 heat or 2 qual and 2 final would be appropriate in this style racing.