Live From Seattle - APBA Meeting

[reed28n]

You can't fix membership

I don't need to spend 2500 bucks for a "working vacation" thank you. Anybody been to Las Vegas lately... I'll clue ya, it aint cheap like it used to be. The wx in Seattle was fine. Raleigh was fine. Detroit will be fine. I spent my time and my money in an effort to accomplish something for Region 1 and Stock Outboard in general. I'm going to color that "mission failure". In fact color my trip to Raleigh the same way. But, it was on my own dime and on my own time, so I'll sleep well.

Speaking of mission faiure. We were all shown slides where APBA membership has been on a virtual free-fall since 2001 or before. Surely everything hasn't been done badly, but not enough things have been done goodly for membership....errr ahh race entries.

It's doubly frustrating when the rulebook for 2009 and 2010 and the download data are out of sync.

Then we spend many minutes (hours according to "Ed" ) belaboring pistons rings, or reed-stops, either of which most of the seated commissioners know technically little about. And, with equally uninformed inputs from the audience, the commissioners are swayed in a direction even the late Ray Charles could see was wrong.

Then we have the J & A rubber bisquit of throttle linkage connection and piston ring use. Instead of meeting together and resolving things to a mutually acceptable conclusion... ie one which would possibly leat to more "race entries" we have quagmire, with messengers running back and forth and listening thru closed doors (minds).

Then we have the 750MH taking a real forward step by tossing the little 42.3 cube Tohatsu out due to (get this) lack of data. Never mind the fact that at several races there weren't enough DMod hydros to make a field and the Tohatsu D guys joined in. Now thanks to this diarretic move the Tohatsu won't be there this year when they could have gotten some points. Fugggedaboudthat!!

Yup... looks like another year and a few less entries. Good job.

Alex

You just can't fix the membership issue until you can get to the core of why people are leaving Stock Outboard. Is it financial? Is it that they cannot compete? Is it not what they thought they were getting into? Is it because they bought a 102 to run in the 20SSH class and now they can't get parts? (sorry I couldn't help myself) Or is it a completely independent issue nt related to boat racing at all.

Year after year we see the membership remain at approximately the same numbers and we can show that we attract new memebrs each year. So, we have an equal number that does not participate for a year or quits all together or moves on to another category. We have absolutely no statistics to form a strategy of retention.

The APBA organization needs to streamline a great deal of issues. One points system across all categories. One safety committee that addresses everything safety across all categories. Demand each category have a growth strategy. Demand each category reduce its number of classes. I would like to see a committee that centrally hosts all of the National competitions for all categories. Maybe APBA should own a site.

We will have the national in Region 6 for 3 out of 4 years. What does this mean? All of that revenue for the big event will stay in Region 6. It will help to make Region 6 stronger, more events, more members and more volunteers to make more events and more.

The rest of you all will be left to make it work with Regional races that Region 6 folks won't have to attend.

If APBA as a premier Boat racing organization is able to host and cash flow these big money events, all of the members benefit from the gain. From Region 12 to Region 1. Lower cost for sanctions at local events and more consolidated negotiating power for APBA as the host of more events.

Region 2 in the 70's easily had more stock outboard members than we now have in all of APBA. It is time to consolidate our efforts.

We have too many small groups traveling in too many different directions. We need strong leadership to move in one direction...

[Howie Nichols]

Did the "J" committee meet at all in Seattle? Or did they just party. After all the disscussion previous to the meeting, you would surly think that there would be some official results posted (meeting minutes).

The meeting minutes are in the hands of the J Class Committee for approval.

Some notes (not all) of what they did are published somewhere on HR.

[Team 12R]

what's the diff?

[QUOTE=pro350hydro;150515]

than 2" of rain an hour or an average temp of 12 degrees.
QUOTE]


Hey Dingman, over on this side of the state it doesn't rain 2" at 12 degrees

Just busting your balls man

Vegas is a good idea, but would anyone get anything done at the meetings?

i talked to daren on sunday night. can you believe that crap about the tohatsu not being allowed in DMOD? what kind of moron was responsible for that decision? if the meeting were in vegas i would at least been there to witness that genius thought process. way to keep moving forward huh?

i'm starting to see why you pro guys have so much fun racing the title series. i guess not having enough entries now for another class to race my 44 this year will allow me to volunteer another flight in a kicker boat. i forgot the reason i sold my harleys and snowmobiles was to watch kids run another class with their 15hp hemps.

vegas? naahhh.... what was i thinking? maybe chuckie cheese?

[dholt]

Brother Scott

A lot of what you are saying has merit.

What causes someone to leave APBA? There are many reasons, for sure. But until we know what the major ones are, how do we "fix" the problem? We have to identify those reasons. There will always be turnover, can't stop that. While reducing the reasons to quit would be great, if we can double or triple the amount of "new" racers...then the bottom line will continue to increase. So...both issues need addressed. Why people leave and what attracts them to begin racing. To me, the biggest drawback is water time. Tell a guy he's gotta drive 3-5 hours to a race, spend all that cash on equipment, etc... and if he races one class he sits around for 6-8 hours for 2 heats each day? A total of maybe 5-7 minutes of racing per day. Are you kidding me?


A bit confused, though, at your summation of the Nationals and how it affects regional racing.

For one, Region 6 is not hosting 3 out of 4 Stock Nationals. Since 2001, we had:

2001- Whitney Pt. (Region 2)
2002- Wakefield, Mi. (Region 7)
2003- Copperopolis, Ca. (Region 11)
2004- Whitney Pt. (Region 2)
2005- Dayton, Oh. (Region 6)
2006- Wakefield, Mi. (R-7)
2007- Moses Lake, Wa. (Region 10)
2008- Whitney Pt (R-2)
2009- Grass Lake, Mi. (R-6)
2010- Oroville, Ca. (R-11)
2011- Wakefield (R-7)
2012- Grass Lake (R-6)
2013- Rainbow City, Al. (Region 14)

By spreading the event around the country, it gives people from all over a pretty good chance of attending the biggest race of the year. Looks to have increased interest and partcipation in many areas, especially R-10. When we were in the cycle of Wakefield every other year in the 80's and early 90's, not sure that was a good thing. I rarely saw new faces at those events from the west coast. Not like I do currently.

Look at the areas that haven't hosted a Nationals in a long, long time. Region 5. Probably witnessed the biggest decline in Stock Outboard the past 20 years. Maybe a Nationals in that area would have helped...instead of making those guys drive such tremendous distances every year.
Not saying a central Nationals is a bad idea. It could work.

Yes, the Pro category goes to Depue every year. But their category is set up for that. Weekend races are all over the map in a series. It is what they do...what their culture is. Plus with such small numbers, they have to have a central Nationals for a good turnout.

[mike ross]

I felt bad that MHRA/Grass Lake had to bid against the Whitney Point venue. They are both solid events. I wish we had communicated some how prior to the meeting. We were taken a little by surprised when the bid came up. We had heard about Rainbow City and had made some calls prior, to work around the same year. Hats of to Jeff Carter. He now with a good presentation to both catagories has landed racing in Alabama for 3 yrs. I think the kicker in getting Grass lake for 2012 was the presentation also. Reps from the city of Grass Lake flew out to the meeting. They agreed to put up several thousand dollars toward the event this year and next so we should have some great prizes, parties, and maybe some cheaper entry fees. I wish Whitney Point had bid for 2013 as i feel it would have been almost automatic. We at MHRA had looked at a combined mod/stock but wasn't sure the lake owners would go along with the noise. The reps from Grass Lake seemed like they would go along with it. We may try running a few mod classes like we do at Constintine to see if they go crazy. The reps are going to come to Constintine this year to see for them self how loud it is. Anyway I wish we didn't beat our self's up so bad on how the meeting went.I felt is was one of the best i have attended. The sidewinder is now going to be legal in 7 different classes, BSR,BSH,25SSH,25SSR,ASH,ASR,and 20SSH. Maybe we can get the motors per class worked out after seeing the new ones compete and watching how they fit in with the others. Alex you did a fine job presenting the Tahatsu issues. Not being the manufactuer of the motor and bringing what you did showed all the SORC your commitment to your class. The Bass brothers owe you a bunch. No other racer from any part of the country stepped up like that. And I loved when you challenged Fast Eddie as he needs that from time to time. Anyway got to fly see ya soon. Mikey

[14J]

To me, the biggest drawback is water time. Tell a guy he's gotta drive 3-5 hours to a race, spend all that cash on equipment, etc... and if he races one class he sits around for 6-8 hours for 2 heats each day? A total of maybe 5-7 minutes of racing per day. Are you kidding me?

This issue is huge and I’m glad you brought it up Dana. Even as someone who loves racing this issue continues to be an annual struggle for me. I don’t mind the travel as much as I do the 12 minutes of heat time I get over a weekend. Can you imagine the perspective of someone who hasn't grown up on the sport?

I'd love for dialog to continue on this topic and hear some ideas on how we address this.

[Big Don]

I could not agree more. We have to start finding out why people leave our sport and what attracted them to us.

Maybe APBA could start doing this for all categories?

Maybe it’s as simple as if they don’t renew their membership after a certain date it prints a report or something and we email or mail a questioner.

When we get a new member it does the same thing and we ask for what attracted them to the sport.

We do this where I work and we get some good information as I am sure a lot of our companies do. We do it when they are hired and when they leave. The questioner is quite a bit longer on the exit interview. But it certainly has helped us on why we attract employees.

Obviously with anything there is some data that is not very valuable but you certainly can look at trends and common areas.

To anyone out there…

I truly believe APBA’s leaders are moving in the right direction and are trying to stop the bleeding. If you have any ideas do not hesitate to call someone on the board, they will listen. Does not mean they will be able to do everything, but they are very open minded and they know this is a team effort and it takes all of us to get it done.

[Big Don]

This issue is huge and I’m glad you brought it up Dana. Even as someone who loves racing this issue continues to be an annual struggle for me. I don’t mind the travel as much as I do the 12 minutes of heat time I get over a weekend. Can you imagine the perspective of someone who hasn't grown up on the sport?

I'd love for dialog to continue on this topic and hear some ideas on how we address this.

Agree and I'll throw out the first idea. Less classes and then 3 or 4 heats per day.

[Kev43V]

This issue is huge and I’m glad you brought it up Dana. Even as someone who loves racing this issue continues to be an annual struggle for me. I don’t mind the travel as much as I do the 12 minutes of heat time I get over a weekend. Can you imagine the perspective of someone who hasn't grown up on the sport?

I'd love for dialog to continue on this topic and hear some ideas on how we address this.

If we all would put as much effort in to 2 things as we do debating on here, we could make a difference.
1. building up local race sites within our regions.
2. bringing new racers into the sport and retaining them

if every region could/would add local races thru out their region
the #2 would be much easier.

[DougMc]

Here is my two cents on what I experienced for what it is worth.

When I served as the Region 5 Stock Activites Chairman a few years back, I was struck by the fact that no one could give me a list of those who had raced in Region 5 in the past ten to fifteen years. My goal was to make a perfect list of who ran which class, when and what equiptment they still had. The next step was to contact these people and encourage them to get involved again whether themselves or finding a driver.

I called around to many people and most tried their best to help. I called the APBA HQ and they didn't have a system set up that could identify past drivers. They e-mailed me a hard copy list that was a year or two, which I had found on the internet myself. I was told that there was no system where a list could be pulled and given to me. Also, to go back any further than what I was given I would have to pay the APBA for their time and effort to go into their archieves.

After a few months of little to no assistance, I gave up on the project and the idea - and also the position (among other reasons). It is just not possible to be effective when the HQ, and local Region, cannot because of the lack of data or the lack of willingness to give the data to the Activites Chairman.

The APBA HQ is staffed by some very nice people; however, their communication systems must be brought into the modern era. Communication systems change rapidly and APBA must keep up or die as an organization. It must become more of a service organization aggressively reaching out to those current and past racer to keep them active.

I hope that my situation was an isolated event, but I don't think so. My impression was that my requests were seen more as a hassle and the first of its kind. Such data on past and current racers should be available to any Chairman upon request, in a usable format and at the touch of a button.

The APBA must begin to run itself more as a business or at least a service organization. You need to become more pro-active rather than reactive.

[Kev43V]

Agree and I'll throw out the first idea. Less classes and then 3 or 4 heats per day.

Don but which ones are best to drop?
I agree with you fundamentally it is the practicality i have a problem with

[forshey99]

the great debate

Agree and I'll throw out the first idea. Less classes and then 3 or 4 heats per day.

Don,

Couldn't agree with you more. But this is where the great debate starts...."which classes?". the question was already asked by Kev no sooner than I could read your post. No one wants to make the tough decision. No one wants to see their equipment relegated to collector's items. Everyone circles the wagons around their respective position and fights to protect it.
At some time, a hard decision is going to have to be made and some people are going to feel pain as a result.

Nate

[Graham 18ce]

I'm pretty sure this was discussed a couple of month ago... I like fewer classes and more heats - or at least a Consi like we used to run.
I see no reasons not to drop some of the basically the same speed range classes and mix it together or emlinate some motors(i know, bad words).

Take the core classes with the spped range in mind and go racing...these 5 class (10 if you get runabouts in all the classes) will fill your day. lots of time to run elminations, consi and finals.
J(40mph), A(55mph), B (65 mph), C (75 mph), D (85mph)

Max 4 hr program should be the goal. get people on there way home by 4:30pm lastest and they can get home in a reasonable time.

I can take that extra 2 hours on the road and get some sleep or even drive to a race further away as i can still be home and get to bed at a decent time.

[dholt]

It will be virtually impossible to find enough people altruistic enough to vote themselves out of a class of racing.

Therefore...it's up to the SORC to establish a participation standard that clearly states how a class is to be eliminated. Currently, there is no clear rule for this. The responsibility of whether a class is facing elimination is then taken OFF of individuals on the SORC down the road and placed on the PARTICIPANTS of each class. Simply stated...when class "X" falls below "Y" levels of participation it begins its path toward elimination. I proposed a rule like this in detail a few years ago. The SORC didn't act.

Even if a magic wand was waved and starting tomorrow there were say 4 Stock Hydro classes and 4 Stock Runabout classes, you have to face the issue of revenue.

You still have to make enough money at an event (disregarding sponsorship) to pay for the race. That comes from entry fee. So, would drivers be willing to pony up the needed extra money for the additional heats they would be afforded?

In the end...the finances have to add up. Ultimately, you'd hope to have the same amount of total entries you have now with FEWER classes. Then, economically, you wouldn't have to place an additional entry fee burden.

In time, I believe that would happen. Limited choices means more boats in same classes.

As Henry Ford once said about his Model T. "You can have any color you want, as long as its black." Think they had enough cars for eliminations in the "black" category?

[Brian10s]

This issue is huge and I’m glad you brought it up Dana. Even as someone who loves racing this issue continues to be an annual struggle for me. I don’t mind the travel as much as I do the 12 minutes of heat time I get over a weekend. Can you imagine the perspective of someone who hasn't grown up on the sport?

I'd love for dialog to continue on this topic and hear some ideas on how we address this.

Agree and I'll throw out the first idea. Less classes and then 3 or 4 heats per day.

I will through out an question, "How much do you want to pay per heat"?
We have to run so many classes in order for clubs to survive. The idea of everyone running 4 classes 3 or 4 times a day is noble but pie in the sky thinking. We have had the ability to run the same rig in multiple classes as well as some clubs put on 3 days of racing over 2 days.

But even this does not work. The "fringe" class never has enough boats to run or the 3rd day entries is lower than the other 2 days. Why? Why isn't 200MH (FAH) as big as ASH? The "off the water cost" is exactly the same. It is the water cost that has changed.

We (collectively) always talk about more water time but we seldom put our money where our mouths are.
Pay to Play - you only need a club willing to do what the local drivers want and for all the drivers to step up with their wallets. Heck we could run 20SSH & CSH 15 times a day - if the drivers are willing to pony up the coin to pay for it.