J & AX Topics

[Kev43V]

and today the rules specificly forbid weight that can be moved by the driver while under way. the exception is obvious you can allways move your weight

[jtb]

and today the rules specificly forbid weight that can be moved by the driver while under way. the exception is obvious you can allways move your weight

ya think I could strap all Johnny's weight to his arms and legs?

[RuthieRae]

What Susan was getting at is the fact that you can't throw 40 pounds of lead on the deck to plane off the boat and then throw in on the transom once the boat planes off. Being able to shift weight is an advantage. As the lady said, try to consider both sides.
In terms of growth in membership the J catagory and maybe vintage are the only catagories that are on a positive trend. It's the rest of us that I'm worried about.

Not only does it cause issues getting on plane, but the more you continually increase the weight, and the more lead the kids carry, the more dangerous it becomes. For those of us who have always struggled to run classes with 60 pounds of lead, the boat reacts a great deal differently and it does become a safety issue as well.

As far as it all being competition, I don't necessarily like that thought. Anyone can go drive a boat around in circles, the learning on the race course is what makes you a good driver. Richard brings up the most concerning area of boat racing....milling. Testing is NOT going to teach you how to be on the race course with other drivers whom you do not know what their next move is going to be. So yes, it is about learning as well as competing. And for us, we have always run my kids set up so they could get on plane, and get the experience to move up and onward and always have cared less about the speed. But, that is something that has to be instilled in the PARENT.

[Kev43V]

ya think I could strap all Johnny's weight to his arms and legs?

I suggest you try it near the beach first to make sure lil johnny comes back up after a good soaking ... but thats just my opinion

[Howie Nichols]

No Weight increase! While it does hurt the older (bigger) kids, increasing the weight will also hurt the younger (smaller) less experienced kids. We have a new driver in R5 that needs to add 70 pounds of lead to make 290. The family bought an older A boat and use an OMC. They have not put the lead in yet and are trying to figure out 1. where to get that much, 2. where to place it.

With that much lead they are at a disadvantage, they cannot move the lead around, in a crash they have more mass involved one you take the driver out of the picture, etc... and we haven't covered the getting on plane issue.

What do I tell these folks who have no history in boat racing? They got involved through their local boat club that sold concessions at a race and they liked the look and feel of what we did, they do not know all the ins and outs and while they do have some outside help thats not all its about they would like to do some of it on their own and if we add more restrictions to them how long will they stay????

Think about all the competitors not just what you have on your trailer. We have moved on from J because of the weight, perhaps others need to as well.

[Andrew 4CE]

In J60 I used a 1/8" aluminum floor board, on top of that a 3/16" checker plate steel floor, plus 5lbs of lead weight. In addition a 4" sqr tube with a 5 pound lead the slid from the nose of the boat to the back of the boat to get on plane... it locked in place at the back to be safe. And you still needed to hang your toes off the bow to get on plane. I was light. 6' and 145 lbs now. I battled my fair share of races. I don't see why 10-15 lbs more weight would hurt a smaller driver? It does hurts the parents back! haha.

Anyway... checker plate floor board screwed down sounds easy and good weight distribution, very low centre of gravity and right under the driver. I rarely see J kids today hang out on the front like the old J60 days to get on plane. Rule was you just had to have one hand and one foot in the cockpit, the rest was hanging off the front. Remeber the kids with a trick second throttle on the front deck? haha. Where there is a will there is a way.

Adjusting rules to help many larger kids and make a few light kids figure out a plan seems ok to me.

[csh12M]

The other side of the coin...

The other side of the weight coin....

I was pretty sure the potential of raising the weight would cause this reaction. That is why I was proposing a setback on the motor. It won't hurt the light kids a bit, but it will not handicap the setup of the heavier kids except for carrying the additional weight. I know Richard mentioned it potentially eliminating racing the same boat in JSH and AXSH, however I would contend that is already the case if you are trying to beat the best. You can not run the same boat in each now and run the "optimal" setup.

I am starting to think leaving it alone is the best option, but I wish AXSH went a little slower for the heavier "early" moving up kids.

12M

[Richard Hearn]

Dean, just imagine the trick boats in J if there is a setback rule as you suggest. My mind is already running... Do I just run an afterplane on both sides of the torpedo, but have a 5" cutout in the middle? How big does the width of the cutout need to be in my afterplane to pass the "block test"? Is 1" enough? 5"? That's after 30 seconds of thought...

BTW, I don't buy that you need a different boat in J and AX right now. We hadn't even tested the AXSH and placed second in Dayton when Tori ran her inaugural AXSH run (with the same setup as the J, just no restrictor and an AX prop that had been in the box for 2 years).

[csh12M]

Setback

I think it could be very simple. Place a straight edge across the back of the boat. The 4 or 5" inches required is from the furthest point across the back of the boat. It can be measured with a straightedge (level) and a go/no go block.

I believe you can compete in AXSH but if you want to win consistently than the torpedo is less than, and in some cases, under the back of the boat. That is typically a 2-3" move in from even the "trick" J setup. I have not seen the best people at the Nationals run them on the same boat. I have seen people move the transom on the same boat between seasons.

As I mentioned, I am beginning to believe that it should just be left alone. Their are to many variables that effect different people. I just think the one I am suggesting would effect the least amount of people.

[Kev43V]

One thing for sure. I think there has been valid input from both sides of the fence on these issues. It sure makes me glad I am not on the J commitee.

[Richard Hearn]

I believe you can compete in AXSH but if you want to win consistently than the torpedo is less than, and in some cases, under the back of the boat. That is typically a 2-3" move in from even the "trick" J setup. I have not seen the best people at the Nationals run them on the same boat. I have seen people move the transom on the same boat between seasons.

I don't expect that any AXS driver that is still running J is trying to win the Nationals. Most will be in their first year of AXS and just want to compete. Using the same boat and setup as the J would be necessary in these instances.

[Richard Hearn]

Legal Parts in Merc15 Class - 1999 rule.

I've been actively buying Merc15 parts off of eBay (if you are too, it is me bidding it up!). In doing so, how do I know if what I'm buying is legal? The tower is easy. I look at the year stamped on it. But, what about buying a block, flywheel, crank, rods, etc?

There is a rule that says the motor has to be 1999 or newer. I'm not even totally sure what this means given I'm buying parts, not a motor. If I take it to mean that every part has to be 1999 or newer, then as a participant I need a way to know what is legal and not legal.

I've been racing APBA for 30 years (minus a 5 year sabbatical) and understand the game and am confused. Imagine what a newbie goes through to understand this rule...

Can we create a way to make this easier for current and prospective racers??? Just trying to make it easier to participate in the sport.

Can anyone provide some guidance here? Offline of this post, I've gotten conflicting views on whether parts earlier than 1999 that meet the specs are legal. This perspective is from LONG TIME J racers... And if not, how do I know if a part is 1999 or newer. What about a 9.9 tower that is a 2001 edition? Is that legal? Clarification on the 1999 rule is needed here.

[Jim Sweeney]

Howie ?????

Howie, I did some math to figure out how much a kid would have to weigh in order to be 70 lbs under weight according to our current rules. assuming the boat weighs around 100lbs, the OMC motor weighs 65lbs, kevlar, gas, prop about 20lbs combined, thats a total of 185. Add the 70lbs of lead you say they have to add and you come up with 255. that would make your driver 35lbs. Thats one very small 9 year old!.
You say that people should just move up when they are too heavy for J but what if they are not old enough, what then?.
We are loosing many of our J drivers because of the weight issue. Lets make the playing field level so they can stay in J longer and develope their skills before moving up. JIM SWEENEY

[Matt Dagostino]

Richard.........

Can anyone provide some guidance here? Offline of this post, I've gotten conflicting views on whether parts earlier than 1999 that meet the specs are legal. This perspective is from LONG TIME J racers... And if not, how do I know if a part is 1999 or newer. What about a 9.9 tower that is a 2001 edition? Is that legal? Clarification on the 1999 rule is needed here.

Call George. I believe you have his number.

Matt
ps...........and Dean is right, just leave things alone in the boat department. If it ain't broke don't try fixin it. From my childrens prospective it is/was much more important to keep consistancy between AXSH to ASH since the set-up's are identical in most cases. J Hydro to AXSH is more about a boat ride therefore the focus should be on JSH. You can't have it all! The rules now seem to be balanced pretty well in J Class. And as much as i feel for Sweeney, Cheryl and Susan pose a more compelling argument. Adding a ton of lead is frustrating and dangerous. While the 'older' J Hydro/Runabout may have to run somewhat overweight at the current weights, it seems to be the lesser to the two evils!! It does make for good discussion though!

[Richard Hearn]

So, George is the final call on whether a part is legal or not? I'd like to understand the rule so I can do this myself. Is a 1998 block that meets specs legal? Is a 9.9 tower legal? What is the rule??? It doesn't seem that ANYBODY knows what the rule is...