J & AX Topics

[Fast Jack]

Light weight kid.

I had to put 29 # of lead in Jacks boat when he was 9 now at 11 we are down to 15 # in the Hydro and 10 # in the runabout ( and it has electric start and a battery ).Try to get someone to help you load the boats !!!!!!!! . I think the best thing to slow the boats ( I dont agree thats necessary.. a parent can slow down a boat if they feel its necessary) would be drop the motor down. But FIRST ask Craig how the props will respond to the set up change. We found going lower did not make it help to get on plane , especally when we ran a marginal engine.

[Susan Rautenberg]

lets talk restrictor plates--- lol my favorite- but seriously here we want to slow them down-- the weight thing is a different issue

[Kev43V]

lets talk restrictor plates--- lol my favorite- but seriously here we want to slow them down-- the weight thing is a different issue

First let me clairify: I HAVE 0 EXPERIANCE with J rigs
Wouldn't restricting the motor hurt even more on getting them on plane?

[Richard Hearn]

Since I instigated some of this thread, I thought I’d take some time to outline the contributions of the group.

Facts from the Thread:

Plugging:

- Unplugging the J will slow it down, but won’t necessarily slow down the AX (see Susan Rottenberg’s post).
- Plugging the J makes it easier to get on plane with the additional power.
- Unplugging the J will incent folks to find alternative ways to achieve the same thing (cheat, mess with pipe, mess with water holes)
- Unplugging the J still requires a way to restrict water to cool top cylinder without a thermostat, AND reintroducing the thermostat will not work (it boiled the motors 10 years ago).
- Unplugging the J will obsolete blocks that “effectively plugged” it with JB Weld or other effective means.

Weight:
- Bigger kids have a major disadvantage with current weight (setup disadvantage in addition to the obvious of being a heavier rig).
- Weight hasn’t materially changed from OMC to Merc15, which is heavier, thus reducing the weight of the competitive J kid.
- 105 lb kids are generally overweight in the J class with the OMC motor, let alone the Merc15 motor (see 42-M and Don Allen post).
- Extremely light kids might have a hard time getting on plane with a lot of weight.

Forced Set Back:
- Forcing a setback (it was recommended between 4” and 5”) would slow the class down and make it easier to get on plane.
- It would not allow a driver to use a boat in both J and AXS due to the inability of changing setup between heats.
- Force a setback on AX to fix the difference in setup between J and AX and current AX boats and props will be obsolete.

Lower Height
- It is not known whether lowering the height will make it easier to get on plane, or harder. Nobody on this thread has said “I tried it and it works”. Even if they did, they would have to try it in hot and cold weather, at high and lower altitudes. I also have it on good faith that Craig Dewald’s response on whether the props will still work at 2” was “I don’t know, test it”.

Age
- Some believe that younger kids are ready for the speed of 45+ mph, while others may not be.

Speed
- Top J speeds are in the 42/43mph range for the fast, plugged guys.
- Top AX speeds are within 3 mph of A class

Some obvious conclusions (my own prejudices):

1. Raise weight by 15 pounds (plus or minus 5 lbs) to make class more competitive for heavier kids AND to slow the class down some (for those of you who feel it is necessary).
2. Lower the age minimum in AXS for the J kids that are ready to go faster but can’t move up. Make a requirement of at least 1 full year in J if they enter the class younger than 12 or something. I still contend that the worry about the speeds is unwarranted as none of the crashes happen at top speeds. They all happen on the start or milling…
3. Leave the plugging alone in the class. The rule has been there for 10 years. Further, we need the power for planning off. Last, and most importantly, I don’t want to have to second guess whether the person beating me is trying to plug their motor creatively or not.

Parting Note:

We almost went quarter midget racing when Grant was 6 years old and they went nearly 45mph at 6! Also, the QMA (Quarter Midgets of America) has 4000 registered drivers (between 5 and 16). I looked into quarter midgets and almost bought one a couple of years back (the box trailer I have was originally for quarter midget racing, not boat racing). I promise you it is more expensive than boat racing… LOTS MORE EXPENSIVE. It is not cost keeping kids from boat racing vs. quarter midget racing, nor is it traveling (they travel as much as we do). Maybe there is something to this speed thing! Kids of today want excitement, not a ride.

Let’s do the right thing to keep growing the sport, and do it through the J and AX classes. This is the future of the sport!

[mike ross]

Richard get this this whole thing put on the J class agenda for the meeting in Seattle. Nice overview!!!!! Mikey

[Richard Hearn]

Mike, I'm an operator, not a politician. I don't even know who is on the committee. Maybe Sutherland, who has been on this thread, will get it to Miskerik...

[mike ross]

Here Richard. It was easier than plugging the Merc!!!! For any of the rest who would like to make sure your thoughts are known and discussed in Seattle these are the folks you need to be in touch with. Now Get Busy!!!!!!!!

JUNIOR CLASSES COMMITTEE (JR, JH, AXSR, AXSH)
Buddy Tennell, Chairman
4000 Inman Park Lane, Buford, GA 30519-8909
H) 770-831-1181 B) 678-966-3310 btennell@bellsouth.net

Ernie Dawe, Vice-Chairperson
82138 Tahquitz Ave., Indio, CA 92201-3148
H)760-347-3287 F)760-347-4410 dawecraftboats@aol.com
Billy Allen, Sam Hemp,
Jeff Bernard, Mark Miskerik,
Bill Boyes, Scott Reed,
Patrick Gleason, Robin Shane

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum..........

Mike, I'm an operator, not a politician...

Richard

You must be the runt of the litter!!Lol.

[Richard Hearn]

Runt...

Richard

You must be the runt of the litter!!Lol.

When asked why didn't I follow in the footsteps of my father and older brother and become an attorney, my standard response is "I'm the kind of guy that needs an attorney, not the kind of guy that can be one...".

[Richard Hearn]

How do I know if my Merc15 part is legal?

I've been actively buying Merc15 parts off of eBay (if you are too, it is me bidding it up!). In doing so, how do I know if what I'm buying is legal? The tower is easy. I look at the year stamped on it. But, what about buying a block, flywheel, crank, rods, etc?

There is a rule that says the motor has to be 1999 or newer. I'm not even totally sure what this means given I'm buying parts, not a motor. If I take it to mean that every part has to be 1999 or newer, then as a participant I need a way to know what is legal and not legal.

I've been racing APBA for 30 years (minus a 5 year sabbatical) and understand the game and am confused. Imagine what a newbie goes through to understand this rule...

Can we create a way to make this easier for current and prospective racers??? Just trying to make it easier to participate in the sport.

[Kev43V]

Thank you for pointing out something that has bugged the heck out of me!
I asked Sam about this very thing, because he seems to know the rules inside and out. Also he was on the J commitee at the time...
Yet since i did not have a tape recorder and I do not know shorthand. All of the information he filled me in on, kind of went down the memory hole

[Kev43V]

When asked why didn't I follow in the footsteps of my father and older brother and become an attorney, my standard response is "I'm the kind of guy that needs an attorney, not the kind of guy that can be one...".

good thing you have some in the family then huh. LOL

[Dave M]

A Thought

Richard Hearn hit a very good point that I agree with 100%. Kids like speed. The majority want to race dad's rig, or soemthing faster. It is not for everyone.

How many times have you seen a kid come in off the beach and love it. They want to go faster... I hear it all the time around here. Yet I see a lot of parents wanting to slow the class down. I feel this is a step back. I think it should be where it is, or around 45MPH. This encourages larger boats maybe ? Use an ASH boat effectivley, lower the cost to parents for two rigs, and they have a rig to step up into when they reach age.

Another point I would like to make, I feel it is ALL about competition, who wins who loses. It is racing, not riding. I really hate to see a lot of talk on why J should not be about competition, it should be about learning. I think that is the wrong approach. You can test and get the same result as racing for no 1st or second place. You want kids to learn more, spend more time with your child testing. Build a bond. Spend time with other kids who many not have the oppurtunity. Host a J Testing Day at a test site some evening after school, or during the week. Call in sick to work and do it.

At any rate, this is my opinion. Obviously what we are doing is working to a degree, APBA has sold a few engines. But are those kids still racing with us after J ? I know of a lot of parents and kids who gave up because the class was to restricted, to many confusing rules, height, prop, tuck, planning off issues, blueprinting the engine, spending hundreds to travel to a race to draw a crap prop and not plane off. Everyone thinks the J program is working. I say it needs work.

Susan R. validated a point. Weight. She claims her kids has trouble planning off when they add lead, to add more woul dput them at more disadvantage. BINGO. Everyone would be at a disadvantage. That is fair.

AX class.... let the kids play in it, adults who race in the J category need to stop and race in stock or mod or pro.

Have I offended some people with this post ? I bet so. But we obvisouly need change to sustain a growth model. Lets start at retention of the kids.

[swheeler]

What Susan was getting at is the fact that you can't throw 40 pounds of lead on the deck to plane off the boat and then throw in on the transom once the boat planes off. Being able to shift weight is an advantage. As the lady said, try to consider both sides.
In terms of growth in membership the J catagory and maybe vintage are the only catagories that are on a positive trend. It's the rest of us that I'm worried about.

[mike ross]

I can remember back in the J60 days having Deweys lead mounted on a rail and when he went on plane he had it in the forward position to get on plane. Then once he was up he moved the weight back on the rail and it was locked in position at the back of the boat. This weight issue has been around for years. The creative minds always figure a way to make it work. Mikey