Stock chairman for 2010?

[Kev43V]

Many commissioners may feel that argueing on Hydroracer is not their cup of tea and that is fine. I don't blame them a bit for their silence due to the conduct of many on this site.
p.s. hey mikey, since you neglected us (probably accidently) I must announce that 25ssh is still a class!

while i deleted the majority of the body of your post for the quote. I only included it so you could be sure what post i am refering to.
I feel your post is worded well. and although you did do a little spanking I feel you are right in your position. Thank you for the effort and time you put into the sport.
that goes for all on the commision also. although I do not agree with some of the decisions that you have made
Kev

[Kev43V]

I quit racing in 95 to start a family and sold all my stuff.Now my boys are old enough to race and one wants to.Back in 07 my job of 20 years was shut down and i went for five months before i found a job and for the last two years i am only making half of what i did at the foundry.I want to get back into racing with my family but can only afford one engine and thats why i wanted to come back to run A.My kid could run J and i could pull the plate and run A so we could actually run three classes with one rig.We dont care about points we just want to run a few races a year and with my income thats about all we could do thats why i was interested in the merc A.I guess he could still run J and i could run AX he is not old enough for AX yet.Didnt mean to highjack this thread anymore but i couldnt resist

Bob
You still can! but i suggest you go the other way. Run an OMC and restrict it for J and ASX. cost? the motor and both restrictor plates.

[Big Don]

but the way the thing is designed. When you approved the removal of the t-stat and allowed a seal to be made with silicone on the cover you by default allowed the plugging of the hole. (this is just my opinion based on hearsay as I have never taken the cover off of a merc t-stat.)

You're correct...that is what it's doing.

And I can only assume (since I was not at the meeting where this vote took place) that they did it for the very same reason the SORC allowed it to happen in the OMC A engine…. Too level the field since some of the parents /engine builders/racers where doing it in the tower and it was too difficult to inspect.

[Fast Jack]

The Merc 15 is currently produced

Mike you over looked one stat.

47 CSR racers raced 3 times or less
18 raced once

29 25SSR racers raced 3 times or less
14 raced once

This phenomena could be explained by drivers switching over to make a race or only racing at the Divisionals and Nationals to get an extra ride.

The Tohatsu worked, too bad we don't have currently in production and new motors for all of the stock classes.........oh wait......we could have. Wow that will really help.

A - Sidewinder (probationary)
15SS - Sidewinder
BSR - Sidewinder (probationary)
BSH - Sidewinder (probationary), restricted 302
C - Yamato 302
D - Tohatsu

25SSH - Joe Kent, Dave Young, Dave Scott are keeping it going on the east coast through fishing motors....

If the A class is going to keep going strong we need new motors ,perhaps the OMC should be eliminated.
The Merc 15 is currently produced in a factory with American workers. Please tell me where to get a new CURRENTLY PRODUCED OMC A motor. Thank you.

[26V]

Steering committie

Region 11's last race at Dobbins Pam Wilde Ran ASH with her fathers Steve's new Sidewinder. The motor performed very well and was impressive.
I have read here on this site that the goal of the SORC is to have one motor per class. The "A" would have 3 motors available in 2010. So drop the Merc 15 from "A". In five years or less drop the OMC from "A'. Is this the long range plan? Going to be very painful.

Bill the one motor per class is a steering committie concept. The SORC is not required to follow the Steering committie blindly. From the conversations at the National meeting I don't think it will happen. And if the Stock Commissioners listen to thier fellow racers it probably will never happen.

Mikey this is my third post hows about a bold name...

[propnuts]

One motor per class?

Bill the one motor per class is a steering committie concept. The SORC is not required to follow the Steering committie blindly. From the conversations at the National meeting I don't think it will happen. And if the Stock Commissioners listen to thier fellow racers it probably will never happen.

I have not been a big fan of one motor per class, or more particularly one class per motor. On the other hand Merc guys, how many classes with this motor would be enough? I like running CSH and 20SSH with my 302, but I think having it legal in B and D too might be getting a little greedy.

I was there when removing the Merc from A was discussed and the folks from Racing Outboards made a very compelling arguement. The idea was that the Sidewinder A needed a target speed, and the OMC is probably about maxed out at this point in it's developement. The Merc on the other hand is still picking up speed every year. If they targeted the Sidewinder for the Merc speed there is a good chance the Merc through developement would again become the dominant motor, not the scenario we are looking for.

[Shep]

Back on track

Sounds like the same old mess to me, No different than any other catagory. OPC has a similer problem with the SST 120 and Optimax.

Here's a tip: Spectators don't care! they want to see good close racing!

We need quality racing and good boat counts. The SORC needs to be made up of unbiased members to work for the good of the sport and leave personal agendas at home.

Who is going to run for stock outboard chairman / VP? I've only seen one name here. Are there any others?

Shep

[MARATHONMAN]

Does it really matter if the Merc is not a legal A motor . YES. For all the people who bought one with the thought they could move up to A and now can't .That STINKS. Fortunately we could not afford the Merc when Steve Smith had his for sale. We oppted to buy the OMC and William has been able to race axsr- jsr - axsh - jsh . We didn' t win that much[ JUST ONCE in Dayton AXSR .] But William got to race 53 miles that weekend talk about seat time . . We worked together changing restrictors boats motors and had a great time . Thanks Bro & Sam. Sometimes i think we lose focus on what the heck we are doing here. RUN WHAT U BRUNG AND HAVE SOME FUN. I don't mean we don't need rules, but Hey keep it Real. Now we raced at Big Rapids ,mi . and We Raced nine classes with four motors And six boats .William raced axsr - axsh - jsr- jsh- asr - ash - plus asr MARATHON . over 150 miles in one weekend with three boats and 2 OMC's WHOA what a weekend. We also ran two CSR classes & two 25SSR with 2 boats 2 motors . Plus a CSR MARATHON [which I won on Sun]. Ithink that is AWESOME. I guess I am getting off track . Back to focus my ADhD is kicking in . I would like to thank all the people who DONATE their time and efforts to keep this sport working. MY final thought is Let the Merc run in A .So what . More boats,More seat time. MORE FUN!!! TEAM CASUAL 51-M

[reed28n]

Sidewinder A

If the A class is going to keep going strong we need new motors ,perhaps the OMC should be eliminated.
The Merc 15 is currently produced in a factory with American workers. Please tell me where to get a new CURRENTLY PRODUCED OMC A motor. Thank you.

Racing Outboard "Sidewinder" as a motor manufacturer approached the SORC with a model to compete with the current OMC A. No other motor manufacturer has come to the table. This is a complete race ready motor.

The Merc is something APBA approached Mecrury with. It has been a great thing for the J category. APBA has put the package together. There has been no guarantee that this motor, which is built for overseas markets, will continue to be available for purchase by APBA. APBA currently has a dozen or so motors left.

The goal is not to obsolete the OMC A by competition. The OMC will eventually run out of parts and we will have a new motor substitute.

[reed28n]

Personal Agendas

We need quality racing and good boat counts. The SORC needs to be made up of unbiased members to work for the good of the sport and leave personal agendas at home. Shep

Just to clear the air, my family has raced for three generations. We own 5 Hot Rods, 2 OMC A motors, 1 Yamato 102 and 2 yamato 302's. Not too many years ago we would travel with 2 JH,2 JR, 1 ASH, 3 BSH, 2 BSR, 1 20SSH and 1 CSR. Then my brother and brother-in-law's boys got big and went off to college.

My father has a collection of motors that covers the full spectrum of antique motors, some left from my grandfathers marina.

I do not own a sidewinder motor, a sticker or a tee-shirt. I do not own a Tohatsu or plan to race one.

I see these motor configurations as good for a sport that is hanging onto old equipment. Where veteran racers have a distinct advantage over a new driver based on the available equipment not just their knowledge of racing.

When I started back racing after college I bought a Hot Rod to compete in the BSR class. You could get new parts but most everything you needed was used or a long lead time.

We have an opportunity to have motors race ready. Complete, no assembly required. No looking for the right carb out of 27 possiblities, no looking for that magical ignition or old style gear case.

I have no personal agenda. I believe that you will find that the SORC that many of you haven't met, has the best interest of the sport at the center of all debates.

I am willing to debate the particular subjects that you disagree with. But I have seen far more personal agendas posted here from members than I witnessed on the commission for the last two years.

[14J]

I keep telling myself I'm not going to get involved in these discussions. The truth is the economy is down and I'm slow at work

Anyway, this brings up an interesting topic and I'd like to hear from those active in this thread especially those who subscribe to the school of thought that motors will eventually obsolete themselves.

How is this possible when the S.O.R.C continues to approve aftermarket and replacement parts? Yes, it's a necessary evil when we don't have access to current production motors. What's the accuse moving forward?

Without going into much detail I do support the idea of “current production”, this is my position. I was on the commission last year and I have to tell you that I would have rather seen us manage the Merc and Sidewinder based on the assumption that they are in production and available. I say assumption because I also hear chatter about a finite supply of Merc’s. With this being said I would have begun a phase out of the OMC (not sure how that would look or be structured). No, what did we do? We approved more aftermarket parts for the OMC.

Before I get attacked by OMC owners I’ll share with you that I have a basement full of Yamato 102’s and I would fully support a phase out of this motor as well as the 80. Buying a 302 with a restrictor plate and the ability to race (2) classes is how we should be thinking. There’s limited water time and this model offers the best bang for the buck. Instead of having $15-20k tied up in (2) rigs on the beach so I can race 4 heats I now have (1) rig and $7-10k back in my pocket.

So in the end I was a YES vote for the deletion of the Merc from A. Why? I'm not in favor of a 3 motor class. I don't think APBA should morph into some kind of wild cat series where you run what you brung. Again my opinion. If there was a better plan in place for the future of the A class I may have very well voted to keep the Merc.

I’ll go away now.

[Affholter66]

[Q

So in the end I was a YES vote for the deletion of the Merc from A. Why? I'm not in favor of a 3 motor class. I don't think APBA should morph into some kind of wild cat series where you run what you brung. Again my opinion. If there was a better plan in place for the future of the A class I may have very well voted to keep the Merc.

I’ll go away now.[/QUOTE]

Whats the problem w/three motor classes,,,if thats what's there to be raced?? Your position confuses me (easily done to be sure)..you quoted 7k in one rig..guess what I can't afford that...I think I've got 3k in mine...and where/what "wildcat" series are you referring to, let me know I'll go spend my time and $$$$$ w/them....see ya'll on the BEACH

[14J]

[Q

So in the end I was a YES vote for the deletion of the Merc from A. Why? I'm not in favor of a 3 motor class. I don't think APBA should morph into some kind of wild cat series where you run what you brung. Again my opinion. If there was a better plan in place for the future of the A class I may have very well voted to keep the Merc.

I’ll go away now.

Whats the problem w/three motor classes,,,if thats what's there to be raced?? Your position confuses me (easily done to be sure)..you quoted 7k in one rig..guess what I can't afford that...I think I've got 3k in mine...and where/what "wildcat" series are you referring to, let me know I'll go spend my time and $$$$$ w/them....see ya'll on the BEACH[/QUOTE]

Sorry you're confused with my position, and yes you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I'm not a politician so what I believe only needs to make sense to me.

Answer to your question: I'm not confident that WE can properly handle parity of (3) motors in one class. Then again maybe we're not concerned about parity?

Please leave it at that, I don't need to be pulled into this any deeper than I am

[14-H]

If the A class is going to keep going strong we need new motors ,perhaps the OMC should be eliminated.
The Merc 15 is currently produced in a factory with American workers. Please tell me where to get a new CURRENTLY PRODUCED OMC A motor. Thank you.

This should have been done (and was proposed) when Craig Bowman was Chairman. However, there was a concerted effort back then by a small group to ensure that the Merc never became competitive. That occurred AFTER the SORC told the APBA BOD that it would support and wanted a new A engine!

BTW: I am NOT in favor of eliminating any motors in SO. I am in favor of making sure that the new engines that are currently available are the ones people want to buy. This includes the Merc, the Sidewinders, the Yamato 302 and the Tohatsu. I have held this position since attending my first APBA annual meeting back in 1987.

[Cameraboy]

Bill the one motor per class is a steering committie concept. The SORC is not required to follow the Steering committie blindly. From the conversations at the National meeting I don't think it will happen. And if the Stock Commissioners listen to thier fellow racers it probably will never happen.

Mikey this is my third post hows about a bold name...

Being a Steering Committee member, I don't know that I would say that one motor, one class is the concept from that group. Unless something changed drastically during the conference call I missed a few months ago. The concept I have supported (and I understand is where the committee as a whole was at) has been two motors per class, with the (insert your favorite term "new", "in production", etc) becoming the (again insert your term "favored", "dominant", "faster") motor. In the future, if another "new" motor comes along for that class, the process repeats.

Other things stock commissioners will hear from fellow racers (in addition to one motor, one class): don't eliminate my motor, I want to run lot's of classes with one motor but I don't want to drive runabout, don't use Japanese motors, and never, ever, approve a four-stroke. Their ears are raw from Y-80 vs. restricted 302 vs. Sidewinder 20. If they listen to all of that chatter, we will be racing motors in a class until the last one (which barely resembles the orignal because it is full of after market parts) finally falls apart.

And then where are we? That's not a rhetorical question - let's have an answer to that from the status quo crowd.

Let me tell you a story about when the Johnsons started this biz seven years ago. In spring 2002, I was told (by somebody who's been around the block a few times in stock racing in region 10) that the Merc 15 was going to be THE motor for A, and that we should go that route. By that fall, I was told that the Merc 15 was a POS, not competitive in J or AXS, thus no way in hell in A (obviously, things have changed in seven years). So I bought an OMC. My driver was 18 and needed seat time to catch up in experience to the kids half his age, let alone his age. So we ran AXS, A, and Formula A (could have run KPRO and J if he wasn't 18). Lots of seat time.

A couple of points here. One, we need to be well informed about both the choices available and the person's racing goals (short-term and long-term) when we advise new racers. That was the whole idea of a "Plan" to reference. Two, new motors need time to develop. "People" see from the beach that all Sidewinders aren't up to perfomance yet. "People" saw the same from the beach with the Merc 15 seven years ago. Now we've got kids burning off 40 mph J hydro heats with them.

Let's not throw out the Sidewinder baby with the bath water. As Scott said, nobody else is knocking down our door with racing specific two-stroke motors. However, there does need to be some accountability (both from Racing Outboards and Mercury) as to what can be counted on for production schedules into the future, and in the case of RO, when does the test cycle end and the true production cycle begin.

So if you want new blood on the SORC, I'm running in region 10, if the good folks there will elect me. John may have to scare up another Steering Committee member from out here in "Yamato Country"

That's enough from me for now - need to remember the sage advice - "a closed mouth gathers no feet".