Stock chairman for 2010?

[Hutch06]

Why is Merc being removed?

We have heard all of the Mercury proponents say it is not about competing its about seat time. So what if you were able to race the Merc in the A class to fill the field, to get your seat time, but you would only be awarded high points if you raced the OMC A.

This seems like it would insure you get your seat time and since your not concerned with winning you would not get points in the A class.

People who wanted to race for high points and Hall of Champions would run the OMC.

I would like to know why the Mercury is being removed from A after the 2010 season. I have asked this question before and received no reply. Is it to make room for the Sidewinder A? Because we only have a limited supply of J motors? (And if this is the case, why would Mercury mind producing more motors? Wouldn't this help Stock Outboards standings with Mercury in the long run?) Or is it because the SORC is dead-set on making Stock Outboard a one-motor-per-class structure. If this is the case, what are the benefits?

These are questions that I have for folks who are running for Stock Chairman, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate answers to these issues.

Again, not trying to attatck anyone - just looking for information and reasoning behind the decisions made or future decisions that will be made.

[B Walker]

Bill,

Chief Scorer, no. But I have been a Scorer many times. I also have experience working as a scorer at combined AOF/APBA events in which the drivers got points for either one or both organisations depending on their membership. Based on that nightmare experience I feel educated enough to speak on this one.

I have worked in almost every other capacity on the judges stand multiple times in 30+ years of racing.

BTW, National points are not tabulated by the Chief Scorer. Cindy at APBAHQ does that. So tell Cindy want your plan is and note the look on her face when you do.

I would like to hear from a Chief Scorer on this issue specifically, especially one who has used the electronic scoresheets. I am under the impression that it is no more difficult than adding a column and a formula to the excel spreadsheet.

The discussion to put the Merc 15 back into A Stock with no National Points is essentially the same as any class that allows a motor into a class as probationary.

I have never heard anyone say the difficulty of scoring probationary motors is a reason not to have a motor in a class as probationary.

BW

[Jeff5P]

Brad Walker

Currently, at registration scorers check your APBA card to see what categories you can race in, sell you crossover memberships to add categories, sell you APBA memberships if you forgot to send yours in to APBA, sell you single event memberships, check to see if you belong to a club, check to see if you've signed the release and gotten your wrist band, checked over your entry form to be sure you've filled it out correctly and have put down the correct class you want to race in and who to contact in case of emergency, and then enter you in that class and collect your money. In addition at a lot of races, the scorer gets you to sign up for turn boat duty (or inspection duty or judges stand duty) so what is one more small thing?

Okay, Brad since you feel that keeping track of who is running which motor in the A class is something we all know and being sure not to award any points to them is simple, especially with the computer program (which does not do anything with motor manufacturers by the way), then I think you should volunteer to do a trial run of this concept and show us scorers how easy it is to do.

Let us know what race you're going to attend and do this at so the listed scorer (who has trained and taken the APBA scorer's test and been approved by APBA to do all this) can bring a book to read while you're working.

And I won't even dare to comment on how thrilled Cindy at APBA headquarters will be to find out she has to "audit" who's running what motor before she can do all the work required to award the 2-US in the ASH class.

Sometimes when an official wants to rant about an idea that while it may sound great on the surface hasn't been fully thought out, it is a wise man who just lets her do it and moves on .... Oh, and by the way Brad, I have been a chief scorer in APBA for almost 30 years and have used both the paper and computer programs.

Mary Williams

[14J]

I would like to know why the Mercury is being removed from A after the 2010 season. I have asked this question before and received no reply. Is it to make room for the Sidewinder A? Because we only have a limited supply of J motors? (And if this is the case, why would Mercury mind producing more motors? Wouldn't this help Stock Outboards standings with Mercury in the long run?) Or is it because the SORC is dead-set on making Stock Outboard a one-motor-per-class structure. If this is the case, what are the benefits?

These are questions that I have for folks who are running for Stock Chairman, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate answers to these issues.

Again, not trying to attatck anyone - just looking for information and reasoning behind the decisions made or future decisions that will be made.

There's 15 answers to this question. I'm sure each commissioner who voted on this in N.C. had/has his or her own perspective on the debate. I believe the final count was 7 for, 7 against, 1 abstention (don't quote me). Tie breaker to Chairman.

Generally speaking I think the yes votes factored in the following:

Belief that there is a finite number of motors
The motor currently supports and is being used in (2) classes
Opening the A class to the new and available Sidewinder product, still a 2 motor class (OMC)

Whether you agree or not I hope this sheds some light on the topic for you.

[Kev43V]

Currently, at registration scorers check your APBA card to see what categories you can race in, sell you crossover memberships to add categories, sell you APBA memberships if you forgot to send yours in to APBA, sell you single event memberships, check to see if you belong to a club, check to see if you've signed the release and gotten your wrist band, checked over your entry form to be sure you've filled it out correctly and have put down the correct class you want to race in and who to contact in case of emergency, and then enter you in that class and collect your money. In addition at a lot of races, the scorer gets you to sign up for turn boat duty (or inspection duty or judges stand duty) so what is one more small thing?

Okay, Brad since you feel that keeping track of who is running which motor in the A class is something we all know and being sure not to award any points to them is simple, especially with the computer program (which does not do anything with motor manufacturers by the way), then I think you should volunteer to do a trial run of this concept and show us scorers how easy it is to do.

Let us know what race you're going to attend and do this at so the listed scorer (who has trained and taken the APBA scorer's test and been approved by APBA to do all this) can bring a book to read while you're working.

And I won't even dare to comment on how thrilled Cindy at APBA headquarters will be to find out she has to "audit" who's running what motor before she can do all the work required to award the 2-US in the ASH class.

Sometimes when an official wants to rant about an idea that while it may sound great on the surface hasn't been fully thought out, it is a wise man who just lets her do it and moves on .... Oh, and by the way Brad, I have been a chief scorer in APBA for almost 30 years and have used both the paper and computer programs.

Mary Williams

on the entry there is a place for (and we in R7 HAVE to fill it out) motor manufacturer and cubic displacement.
BUT.
With that said, I do not think it is wise to allow a motor to run in a class that it cannot get points. The one exception is a probationary motor.

[Kev43V]

The discussion to put the Merc 15 back into A Stock with no National Points is essentially the same as any class that allows a motor into a class as probationary.

I have never heard anyone say the difficulty of scoring probationary motors is a reason not to have a motor in a class as probationary.

BW

I do not see the logic of taking a legal motor and turning it into a probationary motor.

Please correct me if I am wrong here. I do not think a probationary motor "makes a field" I am under the impression that it takes bonified starters to do that.
I.E.
IF there are 3 OMC A motors and 2 MERC "probey" motors. there will be NO points for any of the competitors.

[Big Don]

A few things…

Seriously I think some of you have lost your minds.

Troy my first comment is not against you ( well just not yet ) Not taking a shot at you but maybe it’s just a poor choice of words… you used it so I’m going to discuss it now…

“Belief that there is a finite number of motors” How many 15 Mercury engines are out there? If the SORC really thought that and it’s true then fine but we have to stop making decisions based on our assumptions and have facts. How many is finite? I don’t know that answer. Does someone else?

Does it really matter if the engine is being used in other classes? I don’t see the point.

I’m not saying dump the OMC…so all you OMC owners (which I am a part of) don’t blast me… But what confuses me is the OMC has been around 30 years but we dump the Mercury that is a lot newer? Why did the SORC not go that direction?

[B Walker]

I would like to know why the Mercury is being removed from A after the 2010 season. I have asked this question before and received no reply. Is it to make room for the Sidewinder A? Because we only have a limited supply of J motors? (And if this is the case, why would Mercury mind producing more motors? Wouldn't this help Stock Outboards standings with Mercury in the long run?) Or is it because the SORC is dead-set on making Stock Outboard a one-motor-per-class structure. If this is the case, what are the benefits?

These are questions that I have for folks who are running for Stock Chairman, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate answers to these issues.

Disclaimer: I am not running for Stock Outboard Chairman. I do not own a Mercury 15, an OMC 15, or an A Sidewinder and am not likely to buy one anytime soon.

I would like to know why the Mercury is being removed from A after the 2010 season.

There is not one answer to that question for the dozens of people that voted for that decision.

But here are the major ones I have heard:

Some believe the SORC has an obligation to help Sidewinder recover their multi-hundred-thousands-of-dollars investment as quickly as possible and voted to remove the Merc 15 from A Stock to assist Racing Outboards LLC.

Some beleive there to be a very limited supply of two stroke Mercury 15's that were made for export only and secured by APBA for use in racing and they should be saved for the J and AX class.

Some believe the modifications allowed by the J committee were a backdoor effort to make the Mercury the dominant motor in A and did not want that.

Some believe in a "one motor, one class" philosophy.

Because we only have a limited supply of J motors?

This seems to me to be a key question. If there are only 50 of these motors available that is a completely different scenario than if there are 500.

(And if this is the case, why would Mercury mind producing more motors? Wouldn't this help Stock Outboards standings with Mercury in the long run?)

The time has come and gone for a relationship with a "brand name" manufacturer to make motors for us. Simply put, we are not a big enough market and have little to no PR value.

Or is it because the SORC is dead-set on making Stock Outboard a one-motor-per-class structure.

I dont know if one-motor-per class is a driving philosophy but I do know and I strongly support that "currently in manufacture, or available in a reconditioned status and available for immediate purchase" is a stated goal of the majority of members of the current SORC.

Hope that helps and furthers the discussion

BW

[B Walker]

Currently, at registration scorers check your APBA card to see what categories you can race in, sell you crossover memberships to add categories, sell you APBA memberships if you forgot to send yours in to APBA, sell you single event memberships, check to see if you belong to a club, check to see if you've signed the release and gotten your wrist band, checked over your entry form to be sure you've filled it out correctly and have put down the correct class you want to race in and who to contact in case of emergency, and then enter you in that class and collect your money. In addition at a lot of races, the scorer gets you to sign up for turn boat duty (or inspection duty or judges stand duty) so what is one more small thing?

Okay, Brad since you feel that keeping track of who is running which motor in the A class is something we all know and being sure not to award any points to them is simple, especially with the computer program (which does not do anything with motor manufacturers by the way), then I think you should volunteer to do a trial run of this concept and show us scorers how easy it is to do.

Let us know what race you're going to attend and do this at so the listed scorer (who has trained and taken the APBA scorer's test and been approved by APBA to do all this) can bring a book to read while you're working.

And I won't even dare to comment on how thrilled Cindy at APBA headquarters will be to find out she has to "audit" who's running what motor before she can do all the work required to award the 2-US in the ASH class.

Sometimes when an official wants to rant about an idea that while it may sound great on the surface hasn't been fully thought out, it is a wise man who just lets her do it and moves on .... Oh, and by the way Brad, I have been a chief scorer in APBA for almost 30 years and have used both the paper and computer programs.

Mary Williams

Mary,

You will get no argument from me that the scorers task list is long, unrecognized, and largely overlooked by joe average racer.

My response was simply that this is the first time I have ever heard of the burden on the scorer as a reason to not do something that we are essentially already doing from a scorers perspective within the probationary motor process.

Many thanks to you and your families service to Stock and Modified Outboard through the years. If I gave the impression that I was taking your effort, or any other Scorers effort, for granted than I apologise.

I believe the entire way we score our form of racing is antiquated and badly in need of a top to bottom review. But that is a subject for another day.

Brad Walker

[reed28n]

Facts

A few things…

Seriously I think some of you have lost your minds.

Troy my first comment is not against you ( well just not yet ) Not taking a shot at you but maybe it’s just a poor choice of words… you used it so I’m going to discuss it now…

“Belief that there is a finite number of motors” How many 15 Mercury engines are out there? If the SORC really thought that and it’s true then fine but we have to stop making decisions based on our assumptions and have facts. How many is finite? I don’t know that answer. Does someone else?

Does it really matter if the engine is being used in other classes? I don’t see the point.

I’m not saying dump the OMC…so all you OMC owners (which I am a part of) don’t blast me… But what confuses me is the OMC has been around 30 years but we dump the Mercury that is a lot newer? Why did the SORC not go that direction?

Facts are there is no guanrantee that the 2 stroke mercury will be made available to APBA into the future.

Fact - the rings for this motor are still manufactured and still available.

Fact - to parity the Mercury and the OMC you have to slow down the OMC or restrict it with say a restrictor plate the size of the AXS plate. The we would have the same exact class twice. C1 and C2, good thing we scrapped that....now we have CSH and OSY-400

Fact - there is no silicone installed at the factory in the thermostat orifice

I am trying to have a little fun with this, but do we really need multiple classses all running the same equipment multiple times? Why is it so difficult to digest the concept of racing fewer classes and run more heats or more laps or more races of those fewer classes?

The goal should be to give the new driver or poetential new racer an equal chance to win with the purchase of a ready to race motor. The Mercury in the A Class does not offer that option.

I think allowing the Merc to dominate the AXS class and the OMC to dominate the A class gives parents more options. If you child is too big and is too heavy to compete in the AXS class then there is a class that isn't 8 mph's faster that he/she could compete in with a little more horsepower and a higher minimum weight. Otherwise they have to make a jump to the 15SS class which runs 15-20 mph's faster than J.

[B Walker]

I’m not saying dump the OMC…so all you OMC owners (which I am a part of) don’t blast me… But what confuses me is the OMC has been around 30 years but we dump the Mercury that is a lot newer? Why did the SORC not go that direction?

Ironically, what your suggesting is exactly what happened in 1985 to get the OMC into Stock Outboard. It had disastrous results to the participation in A. The participation level in that class has literally never recovered.

The SORC learned from their mistake and is trying a "soft launch" of the new motor into A.

It is a painful process

BW

[reed28n]

Racing Outboard update to the Steering Committee

October 23 2009

Steering committee:
Information about the Sidewinder engine project has been available on the
Racing Outboards web site (racingoutboards.com) for several years. Racing Outboards has had information and engines at the last three national meetings. We have had displays of product and literature at the last two nationals with representatives available on site to answer questions and concerns regarding the engines. Engine brochures were included in every driver packet handed out at the Grass Lake Nationals. We have been available for phone calls and have responded to our emails.

This past season we have had product competing in the “A” “B” (15SS) and the 25SS classes. Our intention was to prove to the commission that we were a good fit in those classes.

We did concentrate on improving the performance of the approved 15SS (B) engine. This was accomplished with a lot of testing primarily focusing on carburetor set up. The engine specs were not changed and contrary to some comments the engine was not plugged or altered. The time spent on the 15SS did push back our schedule for the 20 but we had a very successful introduction towards the end of the season. The engine has proven itself competitive with the existing 20 cu in Hot Rod as well as the restricted Yamato and the Mercury 25XS.

Racing Outboards was started because the owner Ron Selewach recognizes the bonds the sport creates, the growth of those who participate, and the life skills it teaches us all. Ron believes that by growing this sport we can share the unique Stock Outboard experience.

Although commitments have been made by the commission to approve the engine it is against our principals to market the engine until it has been approved. All sales to date have been to racers with the knowledge that the engine status is probationary, definitely an impediment to sales.
It is now time for the commission to approve these engines in the appropriate classes so that a marketing campaign can begin with the future growth of the Stock Outboard category as our common goal.

Edward Runne
973-713-3941