"Stock" what does that mean to you???

[ricochet112]

A good example of stock racing being anything BUT stock, NASCAR Sprint Cup...

In APBA we race stock "spec" outboard, it only makes it fair for parity...

[T Chance]

I ran my first race a long time ago as a teenager with a BU (for those of you without an AARP Card, B Utility is what they called B Stock Runabout during the dark ages). At that time the local Mercury dealer had a beautiful green and gold 20H on the back of a hydro in the showroom and my next door neighbor, an off-brand boat and motor dealer had a B Hot Rod on display. Another local dealer had a pure stock gasoline burning B Stock Anzani in the front window. Plus, Martin, Scott Atwater, Chris Craft and Konig were all working on B Stock motors.

Those days are gone forever; and aren't coming back.

[ricochet112]

I'm not sure who keeps perpetuating these myths, perhaps the machinists that profit from it, I don't know. Granted, the gear case should be reworked, we have tried running it with the club on the bottom of the skeg and the handling is horrible. Other than that, clamp it on and go, that's what we've done for the last 4 years and we seem to be doing OK.

You must have bought a motor that had the powerhead already done then?

[Big Don]

Brain, and all. Sorry this is so long but….

Agree with a lot of what you say. And I think most would too. Maybe we are the minority who knows. Agree it’s just a category. And you could call our category whatever you want. I want to go race against my friends, it doesn’t not matter what it’s called.

I do think there are some individuals out there that would like our sport though if they didn’t have to scrounge around for parts…Didn’t have to tear them apart and then send them to your area machinist to have them made stock. I think there is room for a class that has a sealed engine type philosophy or really tight tolerances. Do I want all our classes that way? NO, but I think there is some merit to it.

Agree it’s whatever we make it. And I agree that we will cry about what the commissions do. But the problem is there are a large number of racers that don’t like the way things are heading. Then there is the problem of getting elected or changing your regions commissioner. It becomes a popularity vote and most keep getting elected year after year after year. How do you change that? We have both been around to know that is how it works. Heck, region 6 is probably the worse at that type of thing. I know Don is going to strike me dead for say that. LOL You guys probably already know who the next region chairman over there is going to be when you elect the new one 4 years ahead. I have been on the commission and have attended meetings and your right I would rather be putting that money towards a new prop or two. I have the utmost respect for all involved in this volunteer sport. Does not mean I agree with everything they do, but I do appreciate and respect them all.

Do I think some tolerance needed to be tweaked and changed? Yes I do. Do I think it’s good to open them up to save parts? Yes I do. Do I think it’s good to have to have aftermarket parts made and made legal to keep a class going. Yes I do. Do I think we need some new engines? Yes I do. Do I want us to drive our current racer away? No I don’t. What I want are the Commissioners no matter what category to stop and think when they are voting on when they do. I can guarantee you that if we don’t think about our current racers we will never get enough new racers to offset our losses.
If I switched to any sport/ hobby I would be crazy to think I could/should walk in and start winning. You need to do your homework and you have to put an effort in it. I sit in the pits and hear people complain that they are not winning. I ask them when was the last time you went testing? Uhmmm, 4 years ago. Come on, that’s crazy and you want to win and you’re complaining about it and you haven’t tested in 4 years. I tell them we test 5 times a summer at least. And they say you have been doing it for 40 years. Yea but what does that have to do with putting in some time at the lake. When was the last time you bought a prop? Never, or I bought one 3 years ago and it didn’t work….we all know to win at this sport you have to work at it. If it were easy almost all of us would quit and finds something else to do.

But we do need equipment made available and make it easy for the newbie when he does call. We just have to be careful with our current driver’s engines/classes. I can tell you this. We race a lot, and we race a lot of classes. As soon as we can’t be competitive with our current engines we’ll have to make a decision. I can tell you we won’t be racing with 4 different engines though like we do now. So you might pick up some new drivers but you’ll also lose a lot and a lot of entries. No way I could replace my OMC’s, 80 & 102’s.

Yes I know you can still race them. We are not going to race if we can’t be competitive though. And there is no way I can afford to buy a new A, 15 & 20, 302.

We keep referring back to the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s…it is not the same as it was back then. It never will be. As an example…I made 25,000.00 in 1982. A Yamato was around 500.00. That a week salary. Now we are talking 4500.00for an engine. I don’t know about all of you but that’s not close to a week’s pay for me.

Enough for now…

[seanp3]

You must have bought a motor that had the powerhead already done then?

I'm pretty sure Tony got both his motors direct from Montoya. You put enought time on them and they eventually start to loosen up.

[Sonny]

Take it from a guy who obsesses over his race motors...All the little changes you can make within the rules mean absolutly nothing when compared to a good start. If I pulled a straight from Yamato 302 out of the box and "Freight trained" the whole field at the clock because I came off 1000 ft that I marked on my gps testing the day before all that little thousandth's here or a thousandths there wouldnt amount to a hill of beans. Dont look in the motor, look in the prop box.

[mercguy]

I agree!

"Stock" outboard is just the name of a category! You have Junior, Stock, Modified, Pro, etc. Pick a category and go racing. It is not hard, APBA has something for everybody.

If you want to run a STOCK motor, start putting the tiller handles back on and the long shifter shafts. While we are at it, I do not remember a factory that produced Bezoats, MJR, Hemp, Pavlick, Runne, etc. However, there are factories called Gruman, Lowe, Sea Ark, etc. (These are the aluminum fishing boats most clubs use as turn/ pick up boats). How "Stock" do you want to get????

Stock Outboard is whatever we make it to be. And we can all cry about the SORC did this or that but guess what . . . every SO member gives the SORC the right to make decisions on our behalf. If you do not like it, go to your Region meeting and either run for the commission or vote in someone to represent your interests. If you think those that volunteer their time and money to go to the National meeting are in it to "keep" their position as top dogs, go to one sometime. It is money and time spent that does not go into the "go fast" account. Every time they go to a National Meeting, their stuff goes slower. They go because they want to make the sport/ category better than they found it. To sit back and play Monday morning QB is a bit hypocrytical and a slap in the face of those who made the sacrifice don't you think?

Have tolerances and other things been tweaked - yes. It is called Racing after all. Are those "Blueprints" within the rules? Yes. Do not like it - write a better rule. Are they fair to a newbie - who said racing is fair? Is the playing field tilted towards those that have spent a lifetime around racing - duh!! Anything that a person spends a lifetime around, they are going to be better at than a newbie. It doesn't matter if it is racing or quilting or whatever. Can a newbie be as fast as a National Champion their first year - sure, just go to Nationals and bring the fat checkbook. Every National Championship rig is for sale at the right price - how fast do you want to go? Should everyone have equal right to be a champion - that is called Tball and everyone gets ice cream at the end of the game, win or lose. This is Racing. Come and join in, have fun and enjoy yourself.

Go to any other sport and see if the competition runs down the beach to fix a boat or dry out a motor to get a guy out for the next heat? Loan props out to the competition or take a newbie under your wing or even put an almost stranger into your rig that you have blood, sweat and tears into getting close?

For 2 weeks, all that has been on HR is how wrong everything is and how everyone is out to screw you out of you class. There are plenty of spots at the SO table for everybody and if you do not like your seat, move to another table. Outboard racing has plenty of seats available.

Brian 10s

well stated Brian!

[nicf14]

The problem is today's "soft" society, you get a trophy just for showing up. Everybody feels entitled to win with out paying there dues.

[blueskyracer]

Take it from a guy who obsesses over his race motors...All the little changes you can make within the rules mean absolutly nothing when compared to a good start. If I pulled a straight from Yamato 302 out of the box and "Freight trained" the whole field at the clock because I came off 1000 ft that I marked on my gps testing the day before all that little thousandth's here or a thousandths there wouldnt amount to a hill of beans. Dont look in the motor, look in the prop box.

Sonny, you are so right. It is so nice to be in the first turn all by yourself because of a great start. I would not want to go to a beach or flag start. I work hard on my starts. Now everybody keys off me and my advantage is gone.

[Brian10s]

Don and all,

Ok, maybe my post was a little strong but that will happen sometimes at the end of a long work day (and after reading for the last 2 weeks about how the Sidewinder is the devil).

Just a couple of points - the sidewinder is a great thing for the 15 class and down the road for the A & B classes. It is already blueprinted. Because it is a low production motor, built for racing, they are able to keep the tolerances tight. This is a good thing, no sending it away. That and being able to buy a new motor is always a good thing. However, if anyone thinks that it will stay that way forever has not learned from history. It will not be opened up as much as racing a fishing motor but things will happen. Someone will find something to make it alittle faster. They always do.

As for politics, you are right Don, The Godfather did run a tight ship (it also helped that he was right most of time). But if the majority of racers do not agree with certain aspects of the new Plan or the direction it is heading, then the only way to change it is to band together and get to the region meetings. Posts on websites will not change anything. You have to ante up in order to play the hand.

[blueskyracer]

Don and all,

Ok, maybe my post was a little strong but that will happen sometimes at the end of a long work day (and after reading for the last 2 weeks about how the Sidewinder is the devil).

Just a couple of points - the sidewinder is a great thing for the 15 class and down the road for the A & B classes. It is already blueprinted. Because it is a low production motor, built for racing, they are able to keep the tolerances tight. This is a good thing, no sending it away. That and being able to buy a new motor is always a good thing. However, if anyone thinks that it will stay that way forever has not learned from history. It will not be opened up as much as racing a fishing motor but things will happen. Someone will find something to make it alittle faster. They always do.

As for politics, you are right Don, The Godfather did run a tight ship (it also helped that he was right most of time). But if the majority of racers do not agree with certain aspects of the new Plan or the direction it is heading, then the only way to change it is to band together and get to the region meetings. Posts on websites will not change anything. You have to ante up in order to play the hand.

It would be nice if we could use this site to come up with a plan to present to the folks that can make changes. I guess the bottom line is to figure out a way to entice our numbers back to what they use to be in the good old days.
I don't think it would be any fun to turn this site into a place where you just wish someone happy birthday and nothing more.

[jeff55v]

As close to "stock" as we can get?

I like and agree with Gene and Kevin's definitions of stock, and what we call Stock Outboard.

I am a little biased, and that being said, I like what Bass Machines has done to introduce a new "Stock" motor. They took a suitable Stock production powerhead, mated it to an all new racing lower unit and tower, and whaalaaa!
Here the full list of modifications I've done to my new motor to make it competitive:
(All within the rules of course)
1. I Shaped the skeg. (cost $0)
2. I Installed full butterflies to comply with safety rules. (cost $30 I think)
3. I had an expert weld the crank pins for longevity. (cost $100)
4. I installed Boyesen reeds to protect the engine from damage caused by reed ingestion. (cost $50)

That's it! Period.

I can buy any powerhead part I need at the Nissan outboard dealer 30 miles from my house. Or I can get parts from R.A.M. Marine (a fellow Bass/Tohatsu racer).
Lower unit/towerhousing parts are in production and available from Bass Machines.
As far as I'm concerned, this is as reasonably close to "stock" as we can get nowadays.

[Brian10s]

It would be nice if we could use this site to come up with a plan to present to the folks that can make changes. I guess the bottom line is to figure out a way to entice our numbers back to what they use to be in the good old days.
I don't think it would be any fun to turn this site into a place where you just wish someone happy birthday and nothing more.

Nothing against this site or any others - it is great for what it is. and yes, you could develop a plan for the future. However, no matter how good it is, it has to get to the National Meeting somehow. My point was that the current system of running a Category starts with the region meeting and ends at the Commissions. If you truely do not like what is going on, a post of HR is not going to correct it. You need to step up and join the process.

OK I'll start, stock means-- fill in the blank---

When Nascar changed to the 10 race showdown for the chase to the cup a few years ago WOW it really stirred up the pot!

How's about a claim rule either buy the winning motor or prop or cash & trade system (dont read cap & trade) Lol.....the claimmer would have to trade his stuff for yours and some cash or something on that order.

ok slam away!

Everything is for sale right now - you just need a think enough wad of cash. The problem is, everyone wants to pay bargin prices for something someone has worked hard on to improve. Sounds like getting your homework done for you. Why should I test or buy that new prop, when I can just wait for Nationals and claim the winning rig for retail cost?

[blueskyracer]

Nothing against this site or any others - it is great for what it is. and yes, you could develop a plan for the future. However, no matter how good it is, it has to get to the National Meeting somehow. My point was that the current system of running a Category starts with the region meeting and ends at the Commissions. If you truely do not like what is going on, a post of HR is not going to correct it. You need to step up and join the process.



Everything is for sale right now - you just need a think enough wad of cash. The problem is, everyone wants to pay bargin prices for something someone has worked hard on to improve. Sounds like getting your homework done for you. Why should I test or buy that new prop, when I can just wait for Nationals and claim the winning rig for retail cost?

That is so true, everything is for sale at the right price!

I bet if you ask a lot of folks they don't know where the regional meetings are or how to contact the right person that represents them.

[blueskyracer]

I like and agree with Gene and Kevin's definitions of stock, and what we call Stock Outboard.

I am a little biased, and that being said, I like what Bass Machines has done to introduce a new "Stock" motor. They took a suitable Stock production powerhead, mated it to an all new racing lower unit and tower, and whaalaaa!
Here the full list of modifications I've done to my new motor to make it competitive:
(All within the rules of course)
1. I Shaped the skeg. (cost $0)
2. I Installed full butterflies to comply with safety rules. (cost $30 I think)
3. I had an expert weld the crank pins for longevity. (cost $100)
4. I installed Boyesen reeds to protect the engine from damage caused by reed ingestion. (cost $50)

That's it! Period.

I can buy any powerhead part I need at the Nissan outboard dealer 30 miles from my house. Or I can get parts from R.A.M. Marine (a fellow Bass/Tohatsu racer).
Lower unit/towerhousing parts are in production and available from Bass Machines.
As far as I'm concerned, this is as reasonably close to "stock" as we can get nowadays.

That sounds about as "Stock" as you can get in these times