Y-80 / Sidewinder Controversy

[14J]

Here is what happens when you drive too hard and forget that you have three laps to do what you have to do... Pat didn't even charge me for this JPEG! For the record I am not crying, I'm wiping my hair out of my face!

It's not you Greg, it's the crew chief’s fault. Poor set-up selection!

[Kev43V]

This is so true!

Another thing is Sidewinder must be a East Coast, Mid west thing because I have yet to see one here in Washington, Idaho, or Montana. Maybe when we go to Eatonville someone in SOA might have one??

I understand completely where you are coming from. Yet, if I had 2 more 98 dodge rams to go with the one I have. I would not come close to buying a new ram if i sold all three....
question
how much would a y80 that has just placed in the top 3 at the nationals be worth?

how about 1 that places last at all the local races it is run at?
in other words how much more is your #1 motor worth compared to your #3 motor?

[blueskyracer]

I understand completely where you are coming from. Yet, if I had 2 more 98 dodge rams to go with the one I have. I would not come close to buying a new ram if i sold all three....
question
how much would a y80 that has just placed in the top 3 at the nationals be worth?

how about 1 that places last at all the local races it is run at?
in other words how much more is your #1 motor worth compared to your #3 motor?

Kev, from what I gather about the future of the Yamato 80 and 102 I would say that #1 or #3 will not be worth much unless you are going to a Mod class soon.

[dwilderacer]

Getting wet

Greg or Ed,
How did the engine stand up to it's bath. Was drying it simple or a pain. Just curious, since I'm pretty sure We'll give ours a bath at some point.

[HRTV]

All the rich guys will say that 4500 isn't a lot of money... especially when compared to the national debt.. I live in a fat house with all the goodies we have two incomes me and my wife both have good jobs and I'm here to tell you that 4500 for just the motor might as well be a million.. I have 3 Y80's and truth be told ...If I sold all 3 I still wouldnt have enough for 1 sidewinder.

Then maybe you should not be racing, it has nothing to do with wealth. The price tag is what it is! Just like every thing else in life not everyone can afford to do everything they want to do in life. Same rule applies here; if the price tag is out of your reach then you should not be racing.

The sport will not gain a single new member by continuing to run 30+ year old motors, will the introduction of new motors cause a few members to left behind? Sure it will but this is the price the sport must pay in order to pull it self out of the Stone Age and into the future.

Life 101 we cant always have everthing we want The folks over at Sidewinder have got to make a profit, its racing not "charity"

I am truly sick and tired of this sport not allowing anyone to ever make a dime off of there hard work.

[26V]

Dry out

Greg or Ed,
How did the engine stand up to it's bath. Was drying it simple or a pain. Just curious, since I'm pretty sure We'll give ours a bath at some point.

The SIdewinder came through with flying colors after both dunkings!

I watched Ed and Greg dry out the Sidewinder after the BSR race.
pull plugs, gas tank, carb bowl. drain water from gas tank and carb.
pull motor over to remove water from crankcase and cylinders.
pump some 2stroke oil into the upper and lower bearings via the clear feed tube on the motor.
flush cylinders with some sort of water absorbing oil like wd40.
pull motor over untill it looks like you have removed the water from the motor.
put in fresh gas and oil, clean and replace spark plugs.
start motor.

So basicly the same as drying out an omc

[T Chance]

The SIdewinder came through with flying colors after both dunkings!

I watched Ed and Greg dry out the Sidewinder after the BSR race.
pull plugs, gas tank, carb bowl. drain water from gas tank and carb.
pull motor over to remove water from crankcase and cylinders.
pump some 2stroke oil into the upper and lower bearings via the clear feed tube on the motor.
flush cylinders with some sort of water absorbing oil like wd40.
pull motor over untill it looks like you have removed the water from the motor.
put in fresh gas and oil, clean and replace spark plugs.start motor.

This reminds me of something Champion Motors did in the 50's. they put a motor (not a Hot Rod however) in the lake and then after the lake froze, cut the block of ice out and let it melt and then started the motor. Goes to show that the Sidewinder has some good genes.

[Dave M]

Never Left behind

I appluad the efforts of a ne engine being allowed into stock, it ain't easy, just ask Bass Brothers. It might be more fun to go to the dentist and have ten cavities filled than attempt a new engine.

For all you guys that think this engine is out of your reach, your Y-80's and 102's will never become obsolete. They always have a place to race. You can convert it to a Mod simply for APBA racing or run it in its stock version (Identical to APBA) in the NBRA. Did I mention they run stock in NBRA ? Class names are different is all.

[blueskyracer]

I appluad the efforts of a ne engine being allowed into stock, it ain't easy, just ask Bass Brothers. It might be more fun to go to the dentist and have ten cavities filled than attempt a new engine.

For all you guys that think this engine is out of your reach, your Y-80's and 102's will never become obsolete. They always have a place to race. You can convert it to a Mod simply for APBA racing or run it in its stock version (Identical to APBA) in the NBRA. Did I mention they run stock in NBRA ? Class names are different is all.

Dave, don't forget AOF allows the motors in there stock classes to. Like you said just different names.

[Kev43V]

Kev, from what I gather about the future of the Yamato 80 and 102 I would say that #1 or #3 will not be worth much unless you are going to a Mod class soon.

on finances:
If the truth be known I truly can not afford racing right now either. I can not afford a used Y80 let alone a cool new sidewinder. If it were not for the coffee drinkers at the races I would NOT be racing. (I would still be there helping my Bro) when I have enough coffee sold to pay entries I race.
I own 1 boat and no motors at all. But I refuse to dwell on those negatives and look to the future and ways to improve the situation. Both mine and kneeldown racing in general

on new racers: How many people that have gotten into this sport in say the A class have bought motors from people. After they have bought 3 or 4 omcs they MIGHT have gotten one that has nationals potential. That is only IF someone is willing to come off one of their better motors.(this is not blaming anyone cause heck why should they sell one of their best motors? how many did they go through to get that great OMC motor?)
So if someone is in luck and the third motor they buy is actually a really good one they will have from 5 to 6 grand in A motors. OR they can drop 4500 on a NEW sidewinder and be in the hunt IF they have the rest of their program put together including the driver. (the same as with their good omc)
I seem to recall a OMC listed here on hydro either last fall or winter that had placed well at the nationals and they were asking 2 grand for it (25 years old?) someone pointed out in this thread that their y80 cost them 2200 in 89 then they still had to send it off for work. A new J Merc is 2500 today. Then you send it off for work and add the cost of a foot. now you have within a few hundred of that sidewinder A or B or 100 more and you have the 20 sidewinder.
in that same spread of years 3 grand bought a nice street bike now they the same bike will be 6~8 grand. In 89 17 grand bought one hell of a new truck
today? 30 grand unless of course you need a 1 ton diesel then its over 40.
what is the difference between Harley prices in 89 and now in 2009?
A nice fishing boat in 89? and now in 2009?
I saw an ad for a sale price on a bass boat last week. it was more than twice what my brother paid for his house in 80 (OK yes it was an inexpensive house for the day but I hope you get my point)
a local dirt track stock car racer told me he wanted a more competitive car. he dropped over 6 grand on the frame and front end used. yet in 86 I went with a different friend that was running ARCA sportsman class (not local dirt)
we went down to the guy in NC and picked up a used (1 year) nascar chassie for 2500.
now that i have blathered on for so long I just want to say we can not expect our racing costs to remain static just because it would fit our budgets better. when the reality of the situation is that EVERYTHING has gone up. If anything the cost our boats and motors have not gone up as much as everything else. I suspect there was actually some real profit for a boat builder 15~20 years ago compared to todays "new" boat prices(this is just a guess as I was not involved in racing then and do not know what a new boat cost then.

[propnuts]

Did you guys catch this?

A new VRP 250 or 350 powerhead with Pipes and Carbs is around $6500US last time i checked. This does NOT include a tower and/or Lower unit. A new Lee Tietze tower is around $1200, and a new Lower unit can be had for around $1000.

I highly doubt they would even consider building stocks, as the US Market is too small to make it worth their time and money.

That's at least $8700 for a new 250 or 350 motor you have to assemble yourself, almost double what a sidewinder costs. No disrespect meant to the PRO guys, but with a Sidewinder you will complete about 98% of the heats you don't crash in. Sidewinder seems like a real bargain to me. We also can't make it Racing Outboard's problem that the Yamato (bought as new, but still used) is so far underpriced. I bet if we were buying those new from the factory the price would be at least comparable.

[HRTV]

I appluad the efforts of a ne engine being allowed into stock, it ain't easy, just ask Bass Brothers. It might be more fun to go to the dentist and have ten cavities filled than attempt a new engine.

For all you guys that think this engine is out of your reach, your Y-80's and 102's will never become obsolete. They always have a place to race. You can convert it to a Mod simply for APBA racing or run it in its stock version (Identical to APBA) in the NBRA. Did I mention they run stock in NBRA ? Class names are different is all.

With all due respect Dave these old motors should be left behind! For the love of God how long will this sport continue to nurse these old classes? When is enough.. Enough!

Again with all due respect your solution that these guys do not support the new motor rather just keep nursing these old motors in Mod classes is not the answer for the future of the sport. Sure it will keep the same old faces showing up every weekend but how is this helping the future of the sport?

You can prolong the inevitable as long as you want; you will only be hurting your selves in the long run by not adopting change.

Can I afford one? No I cannot not, I cannot afford to race to all but that’s not the point before you ask, The point is taking this sport to next level and these motors in my opinion are the only viable solution at this point and time. These motors must be interjected into the sport and made mandatory at some point whether people like it or not.

Dan Lawrence for APBA president are you with me Dave

Please no profanity in your reply

[Sonny]

Then maybe you should not be racing, it has nothing to do with wealth. The price tag is what it is! Just like every thing else in life not everyone can afford to do everything they want to do in life. Same rule applies here; if the price tag is out of your reach then you should not be racing.

The sport will not gain a single new member by continuing to run 30+ year old motors, will the introduction of new motors cause a few members to left behind? Sure it will but this is the price the sport must pay in order to pull it self out of the Stone Age and into the future.

Life 101 we cant always have everthing we want The folks over at Sidewinder have got to make a profit, its racing not "charity"

I am truly sick and tired of this sport not allowing anyone to ever make a dime off of there hard work.

We are off the point here. Economics 101-You dont take the biggest class you have and tripple the cost of the equiptment in the hopes of attracting new people that is counterintuitive. It is smarter to allow both motors so everyone has a place to enter the sport and if the Sidewinder is faster than you will need one to win. As far as maybe I shouldnt be racing goes, with 3 "B" mods, 2 "C" mods, 2 "D" mods, 2 FEH motors, 1/2 a dozen boats, and a machine shop to support my equiptment I probably have more buisness racing than you do

[HRTV]

We are off the point here. Economics 101-You dont take the biggest class you have and tripple the cost of the equiptment in the hopes of attracting new people that is counterintuitive. It is smarter to allow both motors so everyone has a place to enter the sport and if the Sidewinder is faster than you will need one to win. As far as maybe I shouldnt be racing goes, with 3 "B" mods, 2 "C" mods, 2 "D" mods, 2 FEH motors, 1/2 a dozen boats, and a machine shop to support my equiptment I probably have more buisness racing than you do

Then why are you crying about what you can’t afford? Clearly you are contradicting your earlier statement about what you could not afford.

[HRTV]

We are off the point here. Economics 101-You dont take the biggest class you have and tripple the cost of the equiptment in the hopes of attracting new people that is counterintuitive. It is smarter to allow both motors so everyone has a place to enter the sport and if the Sidewinder is faster than you will need one to win. As far as maybe I shouldnt be racing goes, with 3 "B" mods, 2 "C" mods, 2 "D" mods, 2 FEH motors, 1/2 a dozen boats, and a machine shop to support my equiptment I probably have more buisness racing than you do

Your post just reminded me why I sold this web site, hey enjoy Im out of here before Mike and Teresa get Mad at me