Laydown mirrors MOD ????

[Dave M]

Another

Satisfied customer on the mirror rule. Seems like all the rule did was irritate racers in 850CCMH. Maybe that was the real intention of the rule as it was presented.................... I can honestly say there is not a hillbillies chance in heck I am gonna use such mirrors if they are mounted on my laydown mod boat. They will be there because the rules says it is. This rule, in my opinion is simplyadding costs to allready cash strapped folks in this economy. If it is not functional, why have it ? And I am not buying for one freaking second that you can compare a 45 tunnel boat to a hydro. Bigger boat, absorbs more vibrations, different lines to absorb the vibrations, taller cockpit sides, etc, etc, etc.

At any rate, Dennis, If I were you I would simply mount them and claim you can see out of them just fine. What else is a man supposed to do ? I sure the hell am not cutting my sides down any further. I already feel exposed laying down with short sides.

With all this complaining of the mirror rule, is there some way the saftey committee can recind this rule ? It sounds like the majority of actual racers in Mod of laydown boats are against this rule.

[mercguy]

Good Info!!!!!!!!!

Funny thing about mirrors, you either want them or not. I have said previously that I have a pair from Tim Seebold that outperform all others and I have tried a ton on my laydown that does vibrate.

Thinking I saw Mike Satler not getting off the beach I was running wherever I wanted until Mike came up inside me like a bat out of H___. I put Mike on his head and to this day feel bad about it. I put mirrors on from that day on.

Personal preference. If you have to do it and can find a place, the Seebold mirrors are great.

thanks for the insight Bill!!! I will get the mirror info from you tommorrow night at the SOA meeting...........

[dwestby]

Finally got the pictures first one is the boat in ??? Location of the driver. Second shot is my old feh style of a pro- hydro should be not problem with mirrors on this one now owened by Mike Stone. Back to the first shot the boat on the inside is das boat spud

[pro350hydro]

LOL

That second picture is me driving it at the MOD Divisionals for Mike Stone. Look at the steering cables And yes, they were tight. Shake, Rattle, and Roll Baby

[Al Peffley]

A New Rule Clearly Not Well Thought Out

Like some other recent safety rules that are imposed on APBA racers (that most of the time have good intentions from their sponsors), a mandatory, two-mirrors installation rule for laydowns sounds like it was passed by an APBA Safety Committee without consideration of what a racer can use successfully on most styles of laydown hydro designs. No one should need to "hint" solutions for any application of a mandatory (not "recommended") safety rule. The mandatory equipment ought to be readily available to all laydown hydroplane racers in the impacted class(es). Why is this rule limited to just hydroplane hulls? What do***ented, accident safety investigation initiated this new mirrors safety rule?

This thread indicates what happens when rule-makers are too specific on rear view mirror quantities, styles, or unit descriptions without first considering the practical feasibility of enacting and enforcing such a new rule. Dictating minimum mirror surface area does not address angle setup, mounting, desired driver field of view, and vibration issues (not just the mirrors stability, but also the laydown drivers head orientation stability in rough water conditions.) A racer is sitting strapped firmly into a seat of a capsule boat, but not in a high performance laydown hull.

I agree that any cutting down of protective sideboards to accommodate this side mirrors rule is absolutely the wrong answer and decreases driver protection against side-impact crashes.

The other side of this "safety coin" is that he who risks both drivers' safety with a questionable overtaking move on an inside lane without adequate lane clearance deserves whatever happens to him or her, and no one should feel guilty for another operator's driving style or poor decision to run too hot through a corner. I always try NOT to intentionally block or trap drivers behind me who have an obvious speed advantage over me for safety reasons. I only drive PRO laydown hydros now, so I am concerned about the precedence of any of these type of safety rule changes in any laydown class.

You cannot eliminate "blind spots" in any two-mirror system (car or boat). That's why ski boat drivers went to the single, wide convex center mirror system. If I move over, and the overtaking driver hoses me down to kill my motor after seeing him or her in my mirrors, those same mirrors may only enable a second unsafe driving situation (that is not called against the offending driver by most volunteer corner judges).

There should always be a physical or thorough virtual model testing of all mandatory new equipment applications before they are imposed on the membership, safety or otherwise. Rules that require the installation new equipment on a hull should also include proven mounting methods suggestions and (ideally) a list of "typical" or acceptable equipment types and sources in order for racers to comply with the rule before it is imposed.

This all just sounds like common sense to me, but sometimes common sense seems to be in short supply after the latest decade of boat racing rules have been created.

Al

[Dave M]

Question On Rule

How does one go about appealing a rule forced without a vote by the saftey committe ? Is there a process by which this rule can be appealed ?

[Hunter]

....If long-standing rules had been enforced more aggressively,there would be no need for mirrors.I have experienced several near misses in the "chute" because boats do not maintain a straight line.I almost rear-ended Dave Mason when the space between him and a competitor disappeared.Dave went straight ,the other guy did not and actually ran into Dave...all directly infront of the judges stand....could have been a bad mess.Incredibly,there was no DQ. Beyond the chute,some guys love to bear-away or fade out so as to sweep to the buoys at a better angle...god help those of us who are coming fast and straight to the turn.FEH turns are very dangerous.A mirror on the outside will show you a lot of water and not much else.If lanes were maintained in the turns, there would be no need for a mirror.Most of us in this class respect the speed.If I enter a turn 10 feet from the first pin,I leave that lane all the way around.If you can fit in there and are fast enough to get by me there,more power to ya...although I will be shocked. Bottom line is I fear mirrors will have turn judges and officials on the start line assuming that everyone can now see each other and even less attention will be paid to maintaining lanes.Just go straight guys .There are a few of us who are faster and crazier than the rest.If you do not see us in front,you have to know we are coming.If you don't wander around the course,passes are sure to be safe and you won't have to keep looking in the mirror.If you see me in the mirror are you going try to 'shut the door" ?? This mirror thing could turn out to be a bad idea.
Hunter III

[Hunter]

....If long-standing rules had been enforced more aggressively,there would be no need for mirrors.I have experienced several near misses in the "chute" because boats do not maintain a straight line.I almost rear-ended Dave Mason when the space between him and a competitor disappeared.Dave went straight ,the other guy did not and actually ran into Dave...all directly infront of the judges stand....could have been a bad mess.Incredibly,there was no DQ. Beyond the chute,some guys love to bear-away or fade out so as to sweep to the buoys at a better angle...god help those of us who are coming fast and straight to the turn.FEH turns are very dangerous.A mirror on the outside will show you a lot of water and not much else.If lanes were maintained in the turns, there would be no need for a mirror.Most of us in this class respect the speed.If I enter a turn 10 feet from the first pin,I leave that lane all the way around.If you can fit in there and are fast enough to get by me there,more power to ya...although I will be shocked. Bottom line is I fear mirrors will have turn judges and officials on the start line assuming that everyone can now see each other and even less attention will be paid to maintaining lanes.Just go straight guys .There are a few of us who are faster and crazier than the rest.If you do not see us in front,you have to know we are coming.If you don't wander around the course,passes are sure to be safe and you won't have to keep looking in the mirror.If you see me in the mirror are you going try to 'shut the door" ?? This mirror thing could turn out to be a bad idea.
Hunter III

[Dave M]

Anyone On Changing ?

Anyone care to explain how to change the rule, the process ?

Hunter, I recall the incident well, it totaled the other guys boat basically. I got away with only some stained shorts and some cracks in the sponson deck. We hit that hard... it broke the other boat right up the combing wall in the tunnel, for a long long way. Repairable, but not easily. When built with wood, anything is repairable. In that instance mirrors... no good. The hit came from my left side. I don't know how we stayed upright at 90+ MPH but we did, and both finished the race. I like to think of it as skill and some luck. I lost a lot of trust that day to one of my favorite competitors.

Now then, back to mirrors. If enough people are not for this rule being mandatory, can we overturn it ?

[Team B&H]

I have had plenty of experience driving 45/120/140 and Champ tunnel boats with mirrors as well CMH and FEH lay down hydros without mirrors. In the tunnel boat, you are in a seat and strapped in place and even in one position like that, it was imperative that the mirrors had to be adjusted precisely to be useful at all. Now put those same mirrors on a hydro where you have plenty of ability to move around and those mirrors become mostly useless except to comply with some rule. I have to agree with Dave M that the rule may say you have to have them but there is nothing that says you have to use them or even that they have to be adjusted to be useful. Just put on your 6 sq inch mirrors and race. Laydown hydros have inherently poorer visibility and this mirror rule does little or nothing to improve that. We gave up on the laydown Mod hydros for reasons other than poor visibility. I think our results over the last few years show our decision was prudent.

[sax]

.....Radios.....!

[tommat]

I am thinking that I am going mount a pair of west coast style truck mirrors out on the sponson line.... should have great field of view!!!!! Might be a little tacky looking, so will get the brightly polished ones.

[pro350hydro]

I am thinking that I am going mount a pair of west coast style truck mirrors out on the sponson line.... should have great field of view!!!!! Might be a little tacky looking, so will get the brightly polished ones.

So then are you actually going to bring a boat to the races finally??? I heard you sold all your stuff???

People, its a safety rule per the Mod Commission, bolt on some mirrors and get over it