new motors, etc and support!

[STEVE FRENCH]

So how has the Sidewinder performance progressed?
Ran against Dudley several times last year in AMH ...Zanesville/Akron/LockHaven
and saw the 20 motor run at the Nationals (Whitney) and Lock Haven......any other Fall reports on performance?
Have heard the A-motor is strong.........Was that do to the port'n and has it been tested in the other motors?
How about a recap on performance and changes if any, and any upgrades?.....Or are they to be marketed as raced last season?
Any winter test'n scheduled?

Heard roomers of a pipe package for MOD....any tested?

[jeff55v]

An engine timeline.

How about we get someone to put a much longer timeline on engine/class structure. Wouldn't it be great to know before you bought a motor, how long the engine is planned to have a place in Stock Outboard? Seems to me it would only make sense to have something in black and white many years ahead of any phase out.
This would help engine buyers choose an engine that has a future. It would also help engine sellers to show they are selling a product that the buyer can enjoy for many years to come.

[mercguy]

Darren,

The 302 was not scheduled to be removed from the 20SSH class or the CSR, CSH classes.

And there was overwelming support of the model 302, as the 102 runs out of parts people will move from the 102 to the 302, 25 drivers will migrate to the CSR class.

The price tag of the side winder is what it is and they are up front about your cost to have a race ready motor.

What is the cost of a race ready Merc 15? Approaching $4000

What is the cost of a race ready Yamato 302? Approaching $3000
BTW a new 302 is approx $6000 and you cannot purchase one.

What is the Cost of a Bass Tohatsu? $6500

With the low cost of the 302 and the availability of used motors we have a nice balance of price ranges.
If you perceive the cost of the new sidewinder or Bass Tohatsu to be too much you will be more likely to enter the C class at that lower cost. So I believe we have helped Ric.

Scott

25 drivers migrating to CSR.........that is not the likely solution.............ya, lets just add 60lbs of lead to the boat and really make it handle like crap!!! I said removing the 302 from 25SSR is a bad idea.............removing the 102's is a fair solution.

know one answered my question.................what happens if the Sidewinder deal goes belly up?????? You are solely relying on the Sidewinder to buid the 25SSR class before it is even out there! The 302 can still be bought! You actually think there will be enough Sidewinders purchased in the 2yrs for the class to survive on its own???? I will bet you $1000 it will not!!!!!!!!!!

[26V]

Steve,
There has been some upgrades for the B motor, its being tested now. But it is in its final configuration I believe. The A motor is being slowed down and after testing the specifications will be sent to SORC. The 20ci is getting the same upgrade as the B motor.

Jeff,
I agree, its to bad the steering committee did not publish an outline of its plan for Stock Outboard. It would have been helpfull to know 3yrs ago what motors they planned on droping when the new motors became available.

[sam]

The 302 can still be bought!

And raced in CSR

[Tim Weber]

Sam, and if I remember correctly, 1st through 5th in CSR at Whitney Point were 102 powered. It sure makes you want to go out and buy a 302. Yes, Perman won CSH with a 302 but what about the other 11? I didn't see the CSH race but I heard he wasn't the quickest guy there. Real competitive I'm sure.

If the 302 is such an awsome race motor than why doesn't, Pater, Sutherland, Wiegel, Clark, TJ, Ross, Hemp, D Allen, Harrell, Nuccio, Augustine, Scott Clark, Pinner, Zolkoske, Miskerik, need I go on all run 102's? Why did Worm switch to Shannon's 102 for his last 2 nationals wins? It sure wasn't because his 302 was better.

Here's the rub, we all know a 102 is 1 to 1 1/2 mph faster in a straight line than the 302. So how do we equal them? You really can't. Yes, the H & I dimension is gone from the head. I've already cut the head to min specs. I got more punch but no more top end.

If you really want to get rid of the 102 and make the 302 sell, then you have to make sure the 302 is a better choice and dominant motor. You will have to penalize the 102 motor to the point where the switch has to be made to stay competitive.

We are about at a point with the Yamato where there a going to be a few 102 's that show up only for the big races and kick everyone's butt. Go back in the closet untill next year. It sort of sounds like the days when we all had our " Nationals KG-4 or 20H " that had all the special un-obtanium parts.

Another problem is simple. The SORC wants to help sell Rick's 72 motors. In the economic times we are in, its' really tough to upgrade equipment. How many guys can plunk 3000 bucks down right now? Sure its' $2200 but it won't run like it is.

Oh, by the way, I have run a 302 for 6 years. Its' a great motor but I will probably get a 102 for the big courses.

Tim

[Cameraboy]

How about we get someone to put a much longer timeline on engine/class structure. Wouldn't it be great to know before you bought a motor, how long the engine is planned to have a place in Stock Outboard? Seems to me it would only make sense to have something in black and white many years ahead of any phase out.
This would help engine buyers choose an engine that has a future. It would also help engine sellers to show they are selling a product that the buyer can enjoy for many years to come.

The Stock Steering Committee was formed in December 2006. They took a plan to the SORC at the Annual Meeting in January 2007. The plan was published in Propeller in June 2007.

http://www.apba-racing.com/apps/prop...tock+Outboard+

The timelines have been tweaked by the SORC in subsequent meetings, but this has been "out there" for a while.

[csh2z]

Tim,
My 102 is for sale, give me a call if interested.

[reed28n]

Motors

Sam, and if I remember correctly, 1st through 5th in CSR at Whitney Point were 102 powered. It sure makes you want to go out and buy a 302. Yes, Perman won CSH with a 302 but what about the other 11? I didn't see the CSH race but I heard he wasn't the quickest guy there. Real competitive I'm sure.

If the 302 is such an awsome race motor than why doesn't, Pater, Sutherland, Wiegel, Clark, TJ, Ross, Hemp, D Allen, Harrell, Nuccio, Augustine, Scott Clark, Pinner, Zolkoske, Miskerik, need I go on all run 102's? Why did Worm switch to Shannon's 102 for his last 2 nationals wins? It sure wasn't because his 302 was better.

Here's the rub, we all know a 102 is 1 to 1 1/2 mph faster in a straight line than the 302. So how do we equal them? You really can't. Yes, the H & I dimension is gone from the head. I've already cut the head to min specs. I got more punch but no more top end.

If you really want to get rid of the 102 and make the 302 sell, then you have to make sure the 302 is a better choice and dominant motor. You will have to penalize the 102 motor to the point where the switch has to be made to stay competitive.

We are about at a point with the Yamato where there a going to be a few 102 's that show up only for the big races and kick everyone's butt. Go back in the closet untill next year. It sort of sounds like the days when we all had our " Nationals KG-4 or 20H " that had all the special un-obtanium parts.

Another problem is simple. The SORC wants to help sell Rick's 72 motors. In the economic times we are in, its' really tough to upgrade equipment. How many guys can plunk 3000 bucks down right now? Sure its' $2200 but it won't run like it is.

Oh, by the way, I have run a 302 for 6 years. Its' a great motor but I will probably get a 102 for the big courses.

Tim

So I understand, your proposal is that

1)the old motors have an advantage because people have played with them for so long

2) The new motors level the playing field if more people have them

3) The goal is we all go the same speed.

That is exactly what the SORC has headed toward........ bringing in new motors and trying balance that with members who have motors that are out of production and running out of parts.

[Kev43V]

I sugjest it gets rewriten based on the new dates and re published. Also remember we humans seem to have a short memory therfor after it is republished. can we have it posted somewhere here? that way no one can claim they do not know what the plan is?
Kev

[blueskyracer]

So I understand, your proposal is that

1)the old motors have an advantage because people have played with them for so long

2) The new motors level the playing field if more people have them

3) The goal is we all go the same speed.

That is exactly what the SORC has headed toward........ bringing in new motors and trying balance that with members who have motors that are out of production and running out of parts.

Then I guess you will start controling the props like a "J" class also.

[reed28n]

Steering Committee

We will get the original Steering Committee recommendations up on www.stockoutboard.com

Bluesky - now your just being silly. Then again let's see how the OPC/APBA spec boat class does. Stock Motors, All the same boats and APBA propellers it is popular in europe and the fastest growing class at Stock car tracks....

[mercguy]

And raced in CSR

Sam, do you race ANY of the classes aforementioned????????? I did not think so.............

[Dave M]

Sam's Idea

Is about the fairest one I have seen for stock.

Leave it to a mod guy to figure that one out... (all in jest on the last comment).

[Haüenstein]

Stock has done this before

Is about the fairest one I have seen for stock.

Leave it to a mod guy to figure that one out... (all in jest on the last comment).

I think this is how the Stock category phased out the Merc 7.5 J about 20 years ago.

-Mike