Central Divisionals Fuel

[steve smith 150m]

Ed is Right @ Dana's Left

We all know deep in our hearts, if the sport of boat racing is to continue, we must not allow socialism to to control our country. If either democrat gets into office,we can be assured that no new refinery will be built, and no nuclear power plant either. Our time is running out as citizens of God's greatest nation, and say enough is finally enough. The reason we can't get good consistant fuel, or affordable fuel, is based on enviornmental mandates and the desires of a small but powerfull well funded voting block. Oil companies must produce too many formulations of fuel at various times of the year to satisfy the idots. I dont know what the answer is because i'm getting too old to remember the question.

[ricochet112]

Thanks for the correction Sam.

[sam]

I forgot to say your suggestion about the cheap alcohol presence test kits is very good. As far as I know alcohol is the only thing in street gas at this time that will push the meter reading to the bad zone.

[Kev43V]

I may very well have come across a very simple, low tech method of REMOVING alcohol from gasoline I will try it and see if it works

[sam]

Kev, the test kits operate off of that same principle. They can't get very last drop and I don't know how strict APBA's rule is, so I don't know how practical it would be. Then you have the issue of what to do with 1, 5 or 10 gallons of gasoline smelling alcohol/water mixture.

One of the issues is bacteria ... where ever you have hydrocarbons and air and water ... you have hungry bacteria at a buffet. I wouldn't try to separate too much alcohol and store the potential race gas ... some alcohol and water are going to remain and really help them bugs get going.

The second issue, which may be even more of a problem - is that you bought the gas as a whole mixture ... taking out the 116 octane ethanol component of your 87, 89 or 93 octane gas/alcohol mixture could leave you with gasoline ... but possibly 80 octane or less. Will your motor run on 80 octane gas? 78? 75?

[ricochet112]

Also, water in your fuel will make the Digatron meter read like it's illegal fuel.

You gotta flush your tank after a dump, hmmm, sounds like some kind of pun there

[Kev43V]

I hear what you are saying about the bugs Sam. I personally have seen what those bugs can (and do) do to pipelines. when they get trapped between the coatings on a pipe and the pipe itself. my thoughts were that if you test the deformulated product with the digitron you either pass or do not pass. It is certainly not something i would plan to do all the time. on the other hand, if you show up at the races and can not get legal fuel. and have overnight before you NEED the fuel ....
we on the other hand can still( holding breath) get legal fuel
if we no longer can get it here, then hello airport
as far as disposing of the water alchy mix. i felt letting it weather off would be the most GREEN method i can think of

[sam]

Letting it "weather off" is not very green ... that's the very reason we have low VOC paint and such ... and the reason we aren't supposed to mow or buy gas during daylight hours during high pollution days. "VOC" stands for volatile organic compounds ... like alcohols.

As far as using it in a pinch ... I'd be afraid of the reduced octane issue. You never know what they are selling us. Just because you tested the process at home and it came out OK, doesn't 100% translate to doing it on the road with gas from another brand in another region. You'd be betting your motor each time you tried it. Better to just go home and race another day.

I've been predicting this problem for a few years now ... just as I had come to believe it wasn't a train wreck ... I see that light coming the other way.

Here's what our rule problem is ...

Alcohols are a group of many chemicals we've banned from Stock racing from the beginning and Mod from sometime around 1980? (someone throw in the exact year if you know). The majority of chemicals we ban as additives will conduct electricity, at least a little. Gasoline does not conduct electricity unless it has some of this other stuff in it. We have been using the conductivity standard at races for over 20 years. The test was simple ... you either had gas or you had gas with something in it. If we allow a certain reading to allow 10% ethanol then we have to have some kind of proof that it is indeed alcohol causing the higher reading. The water/phase separation test could hardly be cheaper (even though it is not 100% proof).

But now we'd have to gather 10% ethanol samples from all over the country pretty quickly (within a few days) and test them for the Digitron reading and the percentage of ethanol showing by phase separation test. If they are all consistent, we can make a new standard pretty easily.

Here's where it can become messy: it may be possible (how likely is unknown and maybe unknowable) for someone to buy high test no ethanol gas somewhere and add 9% ethanol and adjust their motor to out perform the competition. This would not be detectible by any reasonable method. I do not think it is actually possible, if it were all the front runners at all the big races would already be running trick gas.

There is also the possibility that someone would use an illegal additive other than ethanol to bring the reading up to the reading legal for 10% ethanol. This would be detectible with the other more advanced tests done on gas from a protest.

The complexity and fear of these possibilities is what I think has immoblized APBA on this issue up to this time.

[Bob Dunlap]

Bad Gas

We are going to have to do something about the gas or change the meter reading.. At the SE Divisionals we had a lot of people show with gas that wouldn't pass. The newspaper stated last week that all gas in our area (the SE United States) would now meet Fed Govt requirements and contain 10% ethanol. The leaded racing gas in our area is a little more than .75 cents higher than street gas, the last VP 110 octane leaded I bought was $12.00 per gallon!!!!!!!!!!!! No Democrats Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[STEVE FRENCH]

Check your local speed-shop/dirt track/airport

I'm runn'n V-P and Turbo-Blue this year....yah cost a bunch more, but how much do we use race'n?....aviation was 100 octane last I bought it in florida for Ocoee 2003-2007.

Also I'm use'n metal cans.....heard somethin about plastic cans for storage?

19P

[sam]

Plastic cans are vapor permeable (vapors can seep thru the plastic itself) and some components of the gasoline will disappear into the air. These will be the "light end" components such as butane. The main reason for "light ends" is to make motors easy to start, butane has a secondary reason ... it's pretty high octane stuff, so its one of the "plus" ingredients. Storing gas in a container that lets butane and other light ends escape WILL make your motor hard to start and may significantly lower the octane performance of the gasoline.

There is a reason not to use super high octane racing and aviation gas in stock motors with stock compression ... big potential for loss of power. When I run out the end of a container of AV gas in my mower I can't cut my tallest thickest grass, the mower doesn't have power and stalls.

If I was a race gas maker ... right now I'd be considering making legal 89 octane no ethanol for low compression motors like Stock Outboard. I would think the Gokart guys are having the same issue (went to their forums and checked ... yes they have the same issue with gas that we do and have no resolution at this time).

[Steve Johnson]

Simple answer

Allow and ORDER race fuel by the barrel. then you will know that it will meet spec. If needed specify formulas but.... I would not count on any thing bought for the general public to hold to any type of standard. Labs that make fuel for motorsport, DO. Everyone has access to a phone and a credit card , so everyone can play.

ED : I would like to ,NOT read about politics on here please.

[dholt]

Matt D.

You're welcome to drive up to Dayton and get the same fuel I run. Want the address?

Otherwise...bring you what ran at Franklin.

[Matt Dagostino]

No Thanks..............

Matt D.

You're welcome to drive up to Dayton and get the same fuel I run. Want the address?

Otherwise...bring you what ran at Franklin.

Dana
We are still fortunate that in many suburbs of Virginia to have 'clean' pump Amoco High test........For years now it has been consistant and clean of additives that would taint the meter!!

I just find it such an hoot that our rule book preaches 'box stock pump gas' which i agree with, yet most racers are blending there own fuel or using 'Racing Gas' which i believe is in direct violation of our mission statement for Stock Outboard.

I don't know the answer but certainly using the 'brews' that certain members of our racing family are concocting is not kosher...........

Hey, thanks for reminding me. I need to run over to Warrington, Va. and get some of that nice clean Amoco 93 octane before we leave for Franklin!! Want me to fill you up a 5 gallon jug just to be safe!!

Matt & Val

[14-H]

Dana
***

I just find it such an hoot that our rule book preaches 'box stock pump gas' which i agree with, yet most racers are blending there own fuel or using 'Racing Gas' which i believe is in direct violation of our mission statement for Stock Outboard.

I***

Matt & Val

Matt: this is not what the rule says. It says that mixing pump gas with racing gas is okay and running racing gas alone is okay.

77: Tuff! Politics is the reason we have this problem! Stop complaining or I will pit next to you at Burlington and play re-runs of Rush Limbaugh's show (loudly). Ed.