850cc Mod proposed rule changes (#8 & #9)

[sam]

Proposal 8 opens up 49ci OMC triples to allow any OMC one barrel meeting venturi and bore spec. The claimed reason is "To allow for ease in inspection"

Sounds like an excuse to let in a carb better than the ones that came on the motor. This motor is the current dominant motor in the class and does not need any additional advantage.

If the Mod Commission really was interested in "allowing for ease in inspection" we would be voting to allow any racing lower unit and any ratio in all classes.

I say vote against this one ... (unless you are willing to risk needing to ferret out which carb zoomed past you on the boat that couldn't keep up last year ... it is a possibility)

Proposal 9 opens up the Tohatsu triple to be run truly modified in 850

I ask all 850 racers to vote for Proposal 9

REMEMBER March 29 is the last day to put your ballots in the mail

and

last year the few Mod racers who returned their ballots changed the class names ... your VOTE COUNTS

[mercguy]

Proposal 8 opens up 49ci OMC triples to allow any OMC one barrel meeting venturi and bore spec. The claimed reason is "To allow for ease in inspection"

Sounds like an excuse to let in a carb better than the ones that came on the motor. This motor is the current dominant motor in the class and does not need any additional advantage.

If the Mod Commission really was interested in "allowing for ease in inspection" we would be voting to allow any racing lower unit and any ratio in all classes.

I say vote against this one ... (unless you are willing to risk needing to ferret out which carb zoomed past you on the boat that couldn't keep up last year ... it is a possibility)

Proposal 9 opens up the Tohatsu triple to be run truly modified in 850

I ask all 850 racers to vote for Proposal 9

REMEMBER March 29 is the last day to put your ballots in the mail

and

last year the few Mod racers who returned their ballots changed the class names ... your VOTE COUNTS

Sam, what benefits do you see allowing the Tohatsu to be "full blown" modified? I really think it is WAY TOO early to allow these kind of mods to the Tohatsu, considering the motor really is not mass produced or sold in the US. There are THOUSANDS of available 3cyl OMC's out there for building an FE motor, along with 6cyl Mercs.

opening up the class to a full tilt mod Tohatsu just gives the guy with BIG BUCKS the ability to build a class killer motor, even being smaller in cubes!

alowing the 40MM carbs will really awakin the motor already............

[sam]

I thought it was at a displacement disadvantage. Do you really think it can be made into a class killer?

[mercguy]

I thought it was at a displacement disadvantage. Do you really think it can be made into a class killer?

it is at a disadvantage (cu wise), but I think (and a well known FE engine builder) think it could be **** close to a class killer (with alot of $$ and time invested in the MODS)..........but, "I" would not "modify" a perfectly good STOCK class motor right now..........I just find it goofy as hell it was put in FE (yes, I will still call it FE), instead of in basically stock form in Dmod (except for the removal of the height restriction and gear ratio)..........(that is a complete different topic). Funny how people are "scared" to allow the motor in Dmod, but do not have a problem with it in FE, since "they" feel it will not be competitive, unless you spend a TON of $$$ on machining, etc (and that is why it should not be in FE)............

[Dave M]

My Point of View

If you spend very little on this engine it could easily become very, very competitive with the current engines in FE (850). My experience in using a Tahotsu engine produced some decent results right out of the box. We tested one a lot of years ago, many years ago. It was not legal then, but a local marina wanted to sponsor me in the class and give me the engines. We tried it, and told him we shouldn't allow the engine in the class as it was to fast.

I guess we will see what the drivers want, majority rules, the beauty of Modified. We can actually vote on things !

As for the carbs on the OMC, I think I am with Sam on this one, sounds like someone found something rarely produced and this is a means to get it in. Who knows, could be a harmless change, but it could also be harmfull. I will have to think hard on this one.

[jay hay]

carb

i think a few people just want to use 45 carbs and not do eney work

[nbass]

850 Tohatsu vs 850 Yamaha

The FE, oops, 850 racers are good customers and I would not want to see damage to the class but would like to see it build. However, I must ask for some sanity. The Yamaha 43 ci 50hp is a legal 850, is very similar to the Tohatsu 43 ci 50HP, and I believe the Yamaha even has slightly larger carbs. So why not allow the Tohatsu run under the same rules as the Yamaha?

As far as cost go, by the time you buy a Bass Machines tower, lower unit, transom mount system, and remanufacture an OMC 70HP, the costs are well up there. Depending on what you do in the way of specialty machining and parts you are probably paying more for that used engine than a new Tohatsu from Sid. By the way, anyone price a new 50 or 60HP fishing engine. Boat racing is a very cheep racing sport. Try going fishing in a 17-foot boat with a 50-60HO outboard. Not cheep.

Tohatsu powerheads are out there. Daren, you built your D-stock from a used Tohatsu and there are more out there. New D-stock Tohatsus are available; you just have to order one

[Art K]

Yamaha

Myself and Dick Falbe both have Yamaha`s that we run in NBRA SE same as APBA FE. I just took delivery on a D Stock Tohatsu The money we spent on our Yamaha will buy you a new Tohatsu. They ain`t cheap to build. As Neal said you want a good engine your going to spend some bucks. Its been our experience with the Yamaha`s that 7ci difference is really a hard thing to overcome. As similar as the Tohatsu is to the Yamaha I think it would have the same problem. I really think you guys should allow the engine in with the same rules as the others After all this is the one mod class where the tinkerer can truly use his imagination. And another engine just adds to the diversity that makes this class so interesting.
Art K

[hydroman6]

So where does one get a copy of the cross reference list (that I would have to assume the inspectors have) that shows the allowable carb numbers for a specific block S/N?

[brian]

The rule

So where does one get a copy of the cross reference list (that I would have to assume the inspectors have) that shows the allowable carb numbers for a specific block S/N?

This is the point of the rule. People have issues and say some one is faster because of this or that. bla bla bla Save the inspectors some time and energy. There is no cross reference list! If the Hay's find the super carb good for them! With this rule in place no one could say I think they have illegal carbs and leave the inspector out to dry because he has no reasonable way to say what carb is legal now. Vote yes and move on.

I watched a stock motor get torn down this weekend for reed stops on a 44ci. Is 1/32 higher on the reed stops a speed advantage??? LOL Inspecting is hard work and if I can vote yes and save one inspector 10 min. I am all over this rule. I dare to say most people do not volunteer as many hours at races as the inspectors and referees.

The FE class has had several hot motors/rigs over the years. The Mason's were super fast for a couple of years and clearly ahead of everyone and are always in the hunt. Vickie's rig is fast now. Robb's rig is fast. The list goes on and on. Good testing works.

For all of those haters who think the other guy has the secret stuff. Welcome to racing. Hit the wind tunnel, vent the oil caps, thin the fins and prop blades....the green flag is coming!


PS. Still looking for 1 under merc gears.

[pops67g]

Modified or Not?

Hollering about this proposed rule change makes no sense. The bore and venturi size stated is the same as in the existing rule. Therefore any carburetor with those dimensions should flow the same. If they don't then they can probably be worked on to improve them. That's what MODified is all about isn't it?. In stock everything should be the same, but nitpicking about carbs in MOD just doesn't uphold the spirit of the division. Especially in 850, is it anything goes or not??

[sam]

Mod is far from "anything goes"

For those unfamiliar with the rules in 850, the only motor that is not significantly restricted in 850 is the 44ci Merc; all the other motors have some handicap or another.

The rules don't say carbs have to match the serial number/be original for your block series ... they say they have to be correct for the 49ci motor size. You simply have to use carbs for a 49ci triple, not carbs from a 56ci OMC triple or some other OMC motor.

The same venturi and throttle size will flow the same air, but a different jet/nozzle/bowl arrangement may change the mixture strength at different parts of the rpm range ... sort of like an accelerator pump effect.

The current rule is pretty simple already and I suspect it is the handicap that keeps the OMC triple from being possibly 10 mph faster than it currently is.

Again, I do not buy the "ease of inspection" argument ... until any lower unit is also allowed on any Mod. That would be "ease of inspection". Think a majority of Mod racers would favor this, but the commission is afraid to put it to vote.

The second least restricted motor in 850 is the OMC twin. It has to have OMC brand carbs; after that it is pretty free.

The current rules give us pretty good parity in 850

If you don't like the rules in Mod, there are classes with fewer rules that you may like ... in PRO

[ER 7J]

The difference in internal air bleeds and jet combinations already exists in the 3 cyl carbs from one production year to the next. That is why everyone seems to have different jet combinations. You can not jet your engine like your competitors unless you have the same part number carbs (the part numbers are not always stamped on the carbs, depends on the year!).
The rule change will make it easier for inspection not provide some secret magical advantage.. if the venturi and throat are the same size it comes down to jetting homework!
Ed Runne

[sam]

Ed, I agree with your assessment, but even you must admit, it is a definite ... maybe. Have you tested every potential OMC one barrel?

[pops67g]

Does the tech manual merely have suggestions then?

On page 43 of the 2008 Mod Tech Manual it states in bold print "THERE ARE NO TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS ON MODIFICATIONS TO 850cc MODIFIED CLASS MOTORS". It seems to me that if you find some carbs that work a little better than others that this same option is available to everyone. This is really a picky little detail in a class where you are able to "add material, remove material, make parts and interchange parts".