What happen to the rounded off pickle fork rule

[David Weaver]

Kevlar

Most of us are guilty of letting our Kevlar dry in the sun, myself included. I have been told by the manufacturer that sunlight will degrade the kevlar material. It would be interesting to know how long Kevlar or Spectra used in driving suits is expected to last under normal wear and tear.

With regards to a comment above, it reminded me of a converation with a friend who once raced cars and raced open hydroplanes. He felt that the local stock car drivers pulled plenty of stupid moves during racing because they felt impervious to injury being surrounded by a heavy vehicle. As a result the number of accidents was much higher. This driver felt that most hydroplane drivers are well aware of being exposed to potential injury in an accident and that this caused them to use more discretion on the race course. This individual got out of car racing and stayed in outboard racing.

For me, the most significant pieces of safety equipment are eyes surveying the race course, the left hand on the throttle and the right foot on the pipe puller. Discretion is the better part of valor and I remind myself before every heat that I need to be in the office Monday morning.

[SAWYER]

How about some kind of molded sponson tips made out of rubber similar to super ball material that could be bolted on blunt sponson tips?

[pops67g]

I'm glad someone else finally says it besides me.

Thanks to Blackhawkguy and David Weaver for finally coming back to the real crux of the issue. I've crusaded a bit from the same point of view repeatedly and felt thoroughly ignored. We probably can examine many sports and find example after example of violence and injury resulting from participants feeling invulnerable when rules are passed mandating more safety equipment. I feel very certain that guys often are prone to taking more chances if they feel less likely to get hurt when their "daring move" doesn't work. Of course let's make stuff safer, but don't forget that safety starts with the one at the controls.

[raceright]

Thanks to Blackhawkguy and David Weaver for finally coming back to the real crux of the issue. I've crusaded a bit from the same point of view repeatedly and felt thoroughly ignored. We probably can examine many sports and find example after example of violence and injury resulting from participants feeling invulnerable when rules are passed mandating more safety equipment. I feel very certain that guys often are prone to taking more chances if they feel less likely to get hurt when their "daring move" doesn't work. Of course let's make stuff safer, but don't forget that safety starts with the one at the controls.

Amen
You do feel overly safe in a capsule thats for sure driving styles will change over driving open cockpit..Also you count on your equipment way to much and thing's happen as the saying goes stay home if ya want to be safe..

Pat

[Dave M]

Good Points

Weaver, Wright, Kerry all have good points and that point has been beaten to death. Much like the cockpit side and sponson tip discussions.

One point Kerry made, you walk around the pits and you see a lot, perhaps even the majority, of racers with worn out Kevlar. Perhaps this should be a wake up call that the sport is getting to expensive for the average person to race. Only well off people should be allowed to race in APBA.... is the message it is sending.

Before a rule is implemented to fix something, perhaps the root causes should be examined a little closer. I am in no way expressing an opinion on whether I feel the sponson tip rule, or cockpit re-enforcement rule is right or wrong. It is the rule and therfore needs to be followed if you want to race.

I also don't think it is possible to fix the problem, the cost of everyday living has increased a lot the last 5 - 10 years, and so has boat racing. The drawback is our wages have not followed suit for most of us.

That being said, we all know the throttle works both ways. Most choose to ignore that fact. Just something that you will never change, adrenelin overrides most peoples ability to think rationaly. Throw in a split second to make the decision and you think a rational decision can be forthcoming ? Not likley. Risks are part of the game. Try to regulate that risk and see how far you get. About as far as we are today. You can't instill common sense, it is inherited. Turn Boat people afraid to make calls, referees afraid to make hard calls, etc. It is just a fact that is present today. Until these people are paid professionals who have no vested interest in boat racing will it become different.

There, my rant is over.

[ryan_4z]

Thats correct Ryan throw them away or have them fixed by a certified vendor me personally I would just trash them.

Dan, do you know how ridiculous that sounds?!? You would throw away a perfectly good set of kevlars because of a busted zipper??

[HRTV]

Dan, do you know how ridiculous that sounds?!? You would throw away a perfectly good set of kevlars because of a busted zipper??

Your right dont know what I was thinking, just put some duct tape over the area and go racing

[raceright]

Weaver, Wright, Kerry all have good points and that point has been beaten to death. Much like the cockpit side and sponsor tip discussions.

One point Kerry made, you walk around the pits and you see a lot, perhaps even the majority, of racers with worn out Kevlar. Perhaps this should be a wake up call that the sport is getting to expensive for the average person to race. Only well off people should be allowed to race in APBA.... is the message it is sending.

Before a rule is implemented to fix something, perhaps the root causes should be examined a little closer. I am in no way expressing an opinion on whether I feel the sponson tip rule, or cockpit re-enforcement rule is right or wrong. It is the rule and therfore needs to be followed if you want to race.

I also don't think it is possible to fix the problem, the cost of everyday living has increased a lot the last 5 - 10 years, and so has boat racing. The drawback is our wages have not followed suit for most of us.

That being said, we all know the throttle works both ways. Most choose to ignore that fact. Just something that you will never change, adrenelin overrides most peoples ability to think rationaly. Throw in a split second to make the decision and you think a rational decision can be forthcoming ? Not likley. Risks are part of the game. Try to regulate that risk and see how far you get. About as far as we are today. You can't instill common sense, it is inherited. Turn Boat people afraid to make calls, referees afraid to make hard calls, etc. It is just a fact that is present today. Until these people are paid professionals who have no vested interest in boat racing will it become different.

There, my rant is over.

Wow Dave the type master I agree with all you said hence you bring out one of my reasons for disclosing the facts as to APBA's financial condition..
We need to figure ways to attract people to our membership and sponsors so there is something given back to drivers as expenses for everything especially safety is getting out of hand..
Note; A very well respected past race team owner and driver told me at the Pro Natal's wow you guys have surpassed what we used to do,you should be
getting paid to do this today..

He is right

Pat

[Lights]

Dan, do you know how ridiculous that sounds?!? You would throw away a perfectly good set of kevlars because of a busted zipper??

I would have to agree with Dan, Ryan. Either get it fixed or don't use them. what if it was the zipper on your pants I dont think you want to have that part cut off know would you.

[Big Don]

Ryan,

Next thing is...they won't want us racing with duct tape on our boats.

[sam]

Dan, do you know how ridiculous that sounds?!? You would throw away a perfectly good set of kevlars because of a busted zipper??

It would probably be best to have the original manufacturer redo the zipper and evaluate their suitability for repair, but If its just a bad zipper you could take them to your local tailor or canvas shop and have them fixed. Would you send out a bent prop to be fixed or keep using it?

Personally if I sent them to the maker and they refused to put a zipper in them I WOULD NOT HESITATE to throw them away

[hydroracer25]

Personal Safety

I have to say that I'm in agreement with Dan on replacing safety gear if it is in disrepair. I personally believe that you can't put a price on your own safety and replacing it when it's worn out should be a priority (yes, even before that new prop). With that said, every racer should have information or guidelines made available to him/her regarding their Kevlar/Spectra/Jacket/Helmet. Each of these items have a useful life (ie. helmets and kevlar degrade in the sun which leads to a reduction in their level of protection over time.

I don't believe you can mandate a driver replacing his/her gear however. This is one that every racer must take responsibility for. Kind of like a seat belt...You know your safer with it on, but you can't make the person wear it if they don't want to.

Mark

[sam]

already mandated

Referees, inspectors and risk managers do have the authority to disallow/prohibit use of any safety gear they deem questionable.

This is not something new

[hydroracer25]

yes, but..

Sam,

You are correct, however as a referee I still feel it is the indivdual's responsibility. Based on some of the issues I've heard regarding one manufacturers Kevlar maybe the referees should not allow anyone using it to race. Is that our intent? It should be about properly educating the racers and allowing them to make an informed/intelligent decision.

You may also recall that the APBA rule book use to require Snell approval for helmets...not the case anymore...you can now use D.O.T. approved helmets. Would I ever use one..NO, but it's the racers decision to determine what level of safety are they comfortable with.

You can mandate pickel fork rules and cockpit rules, but you can't mandate a driver's choice on personal safety equipment.

Mark

[Moon child]

Maybe you cannot force people to wear safety gear that is up to par but if you put a pair of kevlar on that is not going to work than what is the point?? Not only are you putting yourself in danger but you put the person/people who have to jump in the water to fish your broken a** out of the water, the driver and crew of the ambulance that have to speed through red lights to get you to the emergency room because of your excessive bleeding, and not to mention having to delay what everyone else wants...getting to the next heat of racing. Safety gear costs less than the ride to the hospital and less than you can make in a week of work you will miss because you are injured.