Are you kidding me?

[hshawwpba]

We won't be able to judge the value of this project until well after it is complete. Just like any other project. Until it is complete it will not produce the desired goals. As any work in progress, skepticism will always be felt by those outside the loop. Most of us don't know or understand the goal of this project. In order to achieve goals a plan has to be developed. The plan is broken down in steps or phases. Each step must be implemented and successful before moving on to the next step. Whenever anything is built, be it a boat, a building, a work of art or a business until it is complete it won't function as desired.
We are at the very early stages of this project. Unless you know what stage we are in and what results are to be expected, we cannot judge. I'm sure you can learn more about this project if you ask. One thing I guarantee, you won't get answers by complaining on Hydroracer.

You can't get answers no matter what you do, many have asked and were told the info will not be made available. If that is what you call getting the answers needed then I will continue asking questions with others until either they priovide the membership facts or have to close the doors due to lack of members and funds to pay the bills. If this complaining in you opinion so be it!

[hshawwpba]

I only share this to put things in prospective. I agree with what others have posted. What APBA is spending is pocket change. That does not mean we should just throw money around and waste it. Time will tell at the end of the project if it was money well spent. I agree that we should know what it’s costing us and what we are getting. But like Pat mentioned. We elected our BOD to represent us. Let them do what they think we need to do, that’s why we elected them.

Now I do understand we (APBA) is not a 400 million dollar company, the company I work for is a wholesale distributor and we work on very small margins so we have to be frugal when it comes to spending. Our budget for IT is about $3.6 million this covers stuff like programmers, support/help desk, servers/hardware, Computer equipment, maintenance agreements, internet expense, Web Site development, mobile app development, this does not include stuff like office phones, Phone lines, T1 lines, Data-lines, etc.

Once again I only share to try and help other put things in prospective for what APBA is spending if you don’t understand this stuff. If 250,000/350,000is the number that we are spending over three years…. it not much. Dan Lawrence and others could be right, it may not do what we are hoping it will do, but we needed to try something and if it means giving up my propeller magazine that I LOVE so much…then so be it. (as long as it comes back at some point) Like Dan at the APBA office mentioned, we were stuck in 1970 with a lot of this stuff.

I just checked the records and in the 70's APBA was strong and growing, based on current success I would love to be stuck in the 70's and successfull VS stuck with large bills for unknown projects showing 0 ROI (return on investment). Please bring back the 70"s and the people that had true success, rather than current squandering expert minds that have created the swirl of activity above the drain!

[Dr. Thunder]

If you were a member of APBA, you might have a right to complain about this.

So, if someone that is not yet a member but considering membership were to ask the same question(s) and be rebuffed by the Board of Directors do you think that would influence their decision?

Mark Wheelers reponse is the epitome of arrogance and should not be tolerated by the membership.

[Dr. Thunder]

[QUOTE=csh2z;210258]We won't be able to judge the value of this project until well after it is complete .. (Snip)
That's only because the President will not let the membership know the scope of work for the contract.

[bill van steenwyk]

So, if someone that is not yet a member but considering membership were to ask the same question(s) and be rebuffed by the Board of Directors do you think that would influence their decision?

Mark Wheelers reponse is the epitome of arrogance and should not be tolerated by the membership.

Neil:

AlL that is necessarily to understand this type post is to consider the source.

His attitude about former members/non Smart phone folks/ etc., is well known, and does nothing to help APBA. Retired racers could be one of APBA's biggest resources, but I think he goes out of his way to piss them off, and display the arrogance you speak of.

Typical lawyer!



ADD FOR BRIAN MATHESON:

IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY MY POSTS THERE IS AN EASY WAY TO AVOID IT. Just don't read them.

[Dr. Thunder]

Just for the record Stacy jaga bombs! (inside joke)

SOA new folks in boats. Every year for past 5 or so years we have had a racer school. How many new racers have we gotten out of this? about 15- 20 (give or take, i'm not exactly sure on numbers). That's approx 3-4 a year. Not bad considering the sport is declining. We basically sign people up at a boat show in Seattle and give people rides. Brings in anywhere from 10 drivers to a high of 40 one year.

Racing in Seattle is as big as ever. 100 entries a day of racing is very common. Last year's nationals in Michigan, region 10 alone brought 27 boats. That's boats not entries for a 2000 mile trip.

Last weekend's race at Lawrence lake saw 155 entires each day. 19 csh's, 19 20ssh's, 10 CSR and 25ssr, 10 ASH, even 6 500ccmH, and 7 350cch, etc.

Kyle ... You are smarter than that ... You, more than most, should know that number of entries is not the measure that should be sought ... Number of individuals racing is the real benchmark! One driver running the same boat and motor in multiple classes on a given race day should not be the objective ... That's not how you achieve growth!

[Dr. Thunder]

I'll be the first to admit, I don't know the details of this project ... (Snip)

You should and you should not have to ask twice!

[Dr. Thunder]

APBA's Profit & Loss.

From Mark Wheeler: "The professional services we retain, Crown, our CPA, etc. are include under "Professional Services." (Snip)
Stacy

Are you sure? Or, are you simply accepting this because of the source?
If you don't know the value of the contract, the scope of work, what is being measured, or the deliverables then you can't possibly know whether or not the P&L statement for any given period truly reflects the month-to-date project costs.

[Dr. Thunder]

Bill,
I get your point and I agree, the membership should have access to that information. Personally, I have not sought it out so I don't know whether it is available to us or not.

Mr. Wheeler has told the members that it is (to paraphrase) ... "Not available".

[bill van steenwyk]

If you were a member of APBA, you might have a right to complain about this.

Eddie:

I seem to remember if you had your way several years ago, I would have been tossed out anyway for having the audacity to question your authority.

Unbeknown to you I had canceled my membership 1 or 2 years prior. I really never have told that story, so get your popcorn out and have a seat.

I had quit actively racing at that time (1-2 years prior) but wanted to continue to support APBA financially by continuing to pay for a membership, not just the 25.00 dollar kind, but a full racing membership, the kind that at the time cost approximately 150-175 dollars for the "full license" or whatever it was called at the time.

I wrote my check, put it in the envelope and mailed it to APBA. I do not remember the circumstances now, maybe I mailed it on a weekend and it sat in a drop box, whatever it is not important now. The only important thing is it arrived (I was told) at APBA Headquarters 2 DAYS after the deadline. I fully admit I should have been more timely about the payment, but when you are not racing anymore yourself, other things take priority.

Several days to a week later I received a letter from Headquarters from someone of the female office workers, stating since I was late my membership money would not be accepted and I would have to pay a substantial penalty to join for the forthcoming year. After receipt of the letter I called the office and talked to the person who signed the letter, explained that I was not driving anymore, but since I was trying to support APBA financially, with more than just a token payment of 25.00 or so for the Propeller, maybe they could go ahead and accept the payment under those circumstances, as I was not going to be actually racing anymore anyway as I had sold or disposed of all my equipment, and was not going to be liable for an accident or filing any claims of that nature.

I was quickly told, and in no uncertain terms, that unless I paid the penalty, my membership would be declined.

As I am sure you can imagine this did not make me happy, especially since I was not, in my opinion anyway, asking for special treatment. Just accept the larger payment for the racing membership without penalty as I was not going to be racing anyway. If you have ever dealt with a bureaucratic person like this, you know how infuriating it can be, but rather than argue a hopeless cause I just decided to go a little higher up the ladder and wrote a fax message to the APBA President at the time (don't remember now just who it was) with a copy to my region chairman. A couple of weeks later I received a call from Gloria at APBA stating that my check would be returned to me, which took six more weeks.

That was the last membership money I have deposited with APBA, and I felt bad about it for quite some time, till Eddie threatened to have me expelled because I had the audacity to disagree with him about a matter I felt at the time, and still do, could open APBA to liability as requiring certain equipment as safety related in most all other categories, but forbidding it in one.

I must confess, a really warm feeling swept over me when I realized how frustrated Eddie would probably be when he found out he had no power over me in that way. I don't think I was quite so pleased since then until I woke up after open heart surgery 22 months ago, and that was a really good feeling also.

So now, everyone knows at least one chapter in what Paul Harvey used to call the "rest of the story". It would be funny, if those type things by him and other like him didn't contribute to the bad feelings some have about the organization, and as I think is evident by some of his posts just how he feels about former members, when they could be one of the organizations greatest assets, both work wise and financially helpful with dues and purchases of printed Propellers.

Unfortunately some are so overwhelmed with their own self importance, they fail to see the larger picture.

Maybe they should have a "Hall of Arrogance". I am sure he would be eligible for that quite a few times also.

[Hutch06]

Kyle ... You are smarter than that ... You, more than most, should know that number of entries is not the measure that should be sought ... Number of individuals racing is the real benchmark! One driver running the same boat and motor in multiple classes on a given race day should not be the objective ... That's not how you achieve growth!

Dr. Thunder,

I agree that the number of entries over a weekend is not a great tool to measure growth overall. At 3/4 of our MHRA events, we run "3 over 2" in classes that we are pushing through our Racer School (JH, JR, ASH, ASR, 20SSH, CSH, CSR) - we have found that we end up running less classes (not less heats) but have more entries. The reason behind those classes being run the extra day is due to: typically, they are classes with larger fields, they are easy to get started in, and most equipment used can be run in another class (giving a new racer more "bang for their buck").

Although number of individuals should be the real benchmark, not everyone wants to run only 2 heats a day - and if a former Folks in Boats/Racer School grad ends up running 20SSH/CSH/CSR, I don't think this should be discounted from the program that SOA or any other club runs to bring in new racers. To me, that is a bonus!

Again, not disagreeing on your standpoint, but I hate to see one of the few clubs that do a good job in bringing in new people (which is the only way our sport will survive) to be brought down because some people like to utilize the most seat time they can from their equipment. And if a club can gain 2-3 entries instead of 1 because of this, more power to them! Isn't that the great thing behind putting the work into a Racer School? The entries pay off in the end, both intrinsically and fiscally!

[Dr. Thunder]

We won't be able to judge the value of this project until well after it is complete. Just like any other project. Until it is complete it will not produce the desired goals. As any work in progress, skepticism will always be felt by those outside the loop. Most of us don't know or understand the goal of this project. In order to achieve goals a plan has to be developed. The plan is broken down in steps or phases. Each step must be implemented and successful before moving on to the next step. Whenever anything is built, be it a boat, a building, a work of art or a business until it is complete it won't function as desired.
We are at the very early stages of this project. Unless you know what stage we are in and what results are to be expected, we cannot judge. I'm sure you can learn more about this project if you ask. One thing I guarantee, you won't get answers by complaining on Hydroracer.

Mr. Runne, who would you suggest someone should ask to learn more about this project?

[Dr. Thunder]

John:

Thanks for your reply. FYI, Mark Wheeler has recently posted on the APBA Social Page in regards to several questions about the same subject, that the costs WILL NOT be divulged.

The BOD of APBA who made this decision regards the Crown Project will, at some future time, have to stand for re-election again if they so choose. Since to this point no one but they know the cost, scope, and any penalties for non-performance or objectives of the contract not achieved, how will the membership then be in an intelligent position to cast a vote to either retain or replace them with someone else.

Also, how would a possible candidate for the BOD be able to make an intelligent decision as to whether the current members have done a satisfactory job so as to determine whether to challenge them for re election, unless the criteria for the contract and costs are divulged?

I seriously doubt that the Board of Directors does know the scope, costs, performance measurements of the project. If any one of them did know wouldn't you think that by now the general membership would know and would not have to keep asking?

[Dr. Thunder]

Dr. Thunder,

I agree that the number of entries over a weekend is not a great tool to measure growth overall. At 3/4 of our MHRA events, we run "3 over 2" in classes that we are pushing through our Racer School (JH, JR, ASH, ASR, 20SSH, CSH, CSR) - we have found that we end up running less classes (not less heats) but have more entries. The reason behind those classes being run the extra day is due to: typically, they are classes with larger fields, they are easy to get started in, and most equipment used can be run in another class (giving a new racer more "bang for their buck").

Although number of individuals should be the real benchmark, not everyone wants to run only 2 heats a day - and if a former Folks in Boats/Racer School grad ends up running 20SSH/CSH/CSR, I don't think this should be discounted from the program that SOA or any other club runs to bring in new racers. To me, that is a bonus!

Again, not disagreeing on your standpoint, but I hate to see one of the few clubs that do a good job in bringing in new people (which is the only way our sport will survive) to be brought down because some people like to utilize the most seat time they can from their equipment. And if a club can gain 2-3 entries instead of 1 because of this, more power to them! Isn't that the great thing behind putting the work into a Racer School? The entries pay off in the end, both intrinsically and fiscally!

Totally agree ... More heats and fewer classes makes more sense and will ultimately bring more new racers into the ranks ...

[blueskyracer]

When we go to a race I go around and count boats.. not entries to get a much more accurate measurement of the participation! You can have a 150 entries but only have 75 boats or less.. One boat may run in C mod CSH, 20 SSH and maybe that Super CSh class so one boat='s 4 entries