Are you kidding me?

[blueskyracer]

I have watched this thread like all the others since it started and I really think the money give to Crown would of been better spent helping out the clubs you have now and any new one that want to start..

The money should of gone to any club that applies for a sanction in a sum towards the insurance cost. That is the biggest cost so if you gave $2000 towards the $4000 insurance bill and then give a given amout for tow money or for their new boat driver school..I think this would help way more than a new web site that I now never go to..

I will say that new clubs have no chance of starting up when they have to come up with the astronomical insurance fee, and sanction plus ambulance fees.. Infact I think the only clubs that are staying above water are the ones that are averaging 100+ or more entrys per day of the event

Just saying

[Big Don]

Mike I don’t disagree with you and I’m just asking. What if this does generate some additional income through advertizing on our web site? Maybe they can then offset some of our cost to put on a race? You sometimes have to spend money to make money.

Plus remember, this is not just designing a new website from the info I’ve read over the past year

[bill van steenwyk]

Re the various posts about "we elect the BOD to represent us and we need to trust their decisions about the project".

Not an exact quote, but close enough so everyone understands the meaning.

And one more time for those who don't seem to get the reasons for my posts on this matter.

I applaud the management of APBA FOR FINALLY doing something to promote the sport, especially as Pat Wright so aptly pointed out, this function is in the by-laws, and a major part of the reason for APBA's existence.


BUT HOW DOES THE MEMBERSHIP DECIDE WHETHER THESE DECISIONS ARE GOOD, BAD OR INDIFFERENT UNLESS THE COST IS KNOWN, and intelligent decisions can be made as to either keeping or replacing the BOD members who voted to implement it. If the project costs 10,000.00 per year, then I would agree not much could or should be expected, but if the figure is anywhere near what has been suggested over the length of the contract, then there should be some responsibility for the results.

Does not anyone care that an organization funded by membership dues has limited funds available for this or any other project, and those elected to safeguard the payment of those funds should be held responsible for spending them?

How else can this be determined unless the cost is known?

By and large if you read the comments about the web site on the APBA site itself, never mind HR or BRF before the subject became so toxic the whole thread was taken down from BRF, many of the suggestions made by members have not been implemented, and seem, to me at least, to be some very good ones. They range from putting the latest post on any subject first instead of last so it is easier to follow the thread, better color and graphics, etc., etc.,. All things that you would think people supposedly experienced in web site design and construction would be aware of from the start, or at the very least take some of these suggestions by members to heart, and make changes.

[raceright]

I have watched this thread like all the others since it started and I really think the money give to Crown would of been better spent helping out the clubs you have now and any new one that want to start..

The money should of gone to any club that applies for a sanction in a sum towards the insurance cost. That is the biggest cost so if you gave $2000 towards the $4000 insurance bill and then give a given amout for tow money or for their new boat driver school..I think this would help way more than a new web site that I now never go to..

I will say that new clubs have no chance of starting up when they have to come up with the astronomical insurance fee, and sanction plus ambulance fees.. Infact I think the only clubs that are staying above water are the ones that are averaging 100+ or more entrys per day of the event

Just saying

Welfare does not work as the USA is starting to realize, people very rarely appreciate that wich is free. The USTS never has over 70 entries and financialy there Ok and pay tow money maybe not enough but over the last 4 years I recieve about $6,000.00 in tow money. We at the USTS try to present ouselfs as a sport and not a club. It helps when asking for sponsor money and we also try to race in populated areas, Winnona, Hartford,Bartlesville (near Tulsa) Winter Haven..Tough to ask for money from a sponsor when ya are in a swamp. No sponsor then membership has to pay the bills.

[racerchic3z]

It's all about the money....

APBA's Profit & Loss.

From Mark Wheeler: "The professional services we retain, Crown, our CPA, etc. are include under "Professional Services."




https://social.apba-racing.com/discu...loss-statement
Have a field day.

Stacy

[bill van steenwyk]

APBA's Profit & Loss.

From Mark Wheeler: "The professional services we retain, Crown, our CPA, etc. are include under "Professional Services."




https://social.apba-racing.com/discu...loss-statement
Have a field day.

Stacy

Yes, that is what Mark Wheeler says, that the amount is included among "Professional Services" ONLY AS A TOTAL OF THOSE SERVICES WHICH INCLUDES MANY OTHER THINGS. He has refused to break out those expenses paid only to Crown. This is evident if you read all the posts in the thread.

Several have tried to figure the amount out that applies to Crown and came up with 60 to 80K so far for 2012 and that was as 30-60 days ago. When he (Wheeler) was asked specifically for the Crown amount, he refused to divulge it stating that "amounts paid to individual vendors have never been disclosed" or something similar.

And just so those asking the questions are not accused of "dumping" on Mark Wheeler, I have no doubt those instructions came from the BOD, Legal Counsel, or possibly both. If I am in error, please correct me with some proof.

[racerchic3z]

Even so...

When my legal advisor councils me, I tend to follow their suggestions. There's a reason for everything, whether you understand it, or not.

It seems interesting that all of a sudden, everyone seems to take an interest in where their membership dollars are going. Why so sudden? No faith in the organization? Is it personal?

As was previously stated by many users, we will not know the success of the project until it's completed. Even if it does not turn out as we all would like, it will definitely not be for lack of trying.

Failure is not an option.

Stacy

[14-H]

Hey Ed,
Is APBA ever going to send me money for the gears I purchased for my Tohatsu than make them illegal the next week due to a misprint than had been in the rule book for a couple of years? Thanks APBA thanks.

Troy Holmberg

You mean the gears you bought from the manufacturer who knew it was a mistake and sold them to you anyway?

[14-H]

John:

Thanks for your reply. FYI, Mark Wheeler has recently posted on the APBA Social Page in regards to several questions about the same subject, that the costs WILL NOT be divulged.

****?

If you were a member of APBA, you might have a right to complain about this.

[14-H]

I only share this to put things in prospective. I agree with what others have posted. What APBA is spending is pocket change. ****.

The reason it is pocket change is because the owner of the company providing the service is an APBA member who is only asking the APBA to pay for the Company's expenses (and not all of them) and who was stupid enough to agree to undertake this project knowing full-well that these charges would be leveled at him.

What a moron that guy is.

[HydroKyle93R]

Brotherly love... Ed, you're a funny guy!

[bill van steenwyk]

When my legal advisor councils me, I tend to follow their suggestions. There's a reason for everything, whether you understand it, or not.

It seems interesting that all of a sudden, everyone seems to take an interest in where their membership dollars are going. Why so sudden? No faith in the organization? Is it personal?

As was previously stated by many users, we will not know the success of the project until it's completed. Even if it does not turn out as we all would like, it will definitely not be for lack of trying.

Failure is not an option.

Stacy

I am usually not at a loss for words about anything, but the original post by this person indicated to me that they were unaware that even though the "Profit and Loss" statement published on the APBA site does have some information pertinent to this discussion, it is incomplete as I pointed out in my reply.

The more I think about this, the more sure I am that was known. If it was not, then it is just another example of information being put out by APBA management and by the way it is titled, indicating there is much more there than there is, and allowing people to draw conclusions based on incomplete information. Why this is done, I do not know, except it does show that some folks are eager to believe that things are not exactly the way they really are.

Then when the poster replies to me after having this pointed out by me to them, what I get is the same misinformation and platitudes that have been put up before, as in the phrase "Failure is not an option."


I hate to be the one to break your bubble, but failure is very much an option, just in the way things can conspire to cause problems in any project, no matter the good intentions of those who approve it and those that carry it out. When you add to that the secrecy and lack of openness this one has carried since the beginning, you have to ask "WHY", or at least I do along with others who have questioned the cost and particulars of the project since it first became public knowledge a year and a half ago.

And because failure IS very much an option, especially in the uncertain economic times that exist today, it is very important that responsibility can be assigned in the event the project turns bad and failure becomes what happens with the project instead of the "option". This is necessary for all the reasons discussed since it became public knowledge, or at least the bare minimum information that does exist.

Like it or not, if it fails, membership needs to know who was responsible, so the folks responsible will not be entrusted with employment and their dues money again for projects like this one that had the details hidden from their view. If membership becomes so disillusioned by a failure, that may well make it impossible to have money spent for promotion of the sport in the future because of the way this expenditure was handled. Failure to want to part with dues monies, would probably mean the end of the organization.

I am also an optimist, but I have to be given a reason for optimism, and when things are done out of the light of day, then the tendency is towards pessimism. There is a reason for that, and it is NOT THE FAULT of those that are pessimistic about it, but those that have kept the details hidden about the project, to this point.

I would like to ask one more question of those that have excused the lack in information about this project with all the reasons and platitudes written about it to this time on this site.

Would you approve the expenditure of an unknown amount of money, rumored to be several hundred thousand dollars, for unknown reasons (scope of the project) and unknown penalties if certain unknown targets were not met. And while you are thinking about it remember that the money is coming out of not only your own pocket but your friends pockets, not from some large faceless corporation.

And one final thought:

I have no thoughts or doubt that the members of the BOD are not honest and have the best interests of the membership at heart. It is simply time to for them to trust the membership them with information that they (the membership) need to assure themselves they (the BOD) have made good decisions in the memberships behalf, and the other pertinent information about it.(Cost, Scope and Penalties, if any) This decision carries a lot more "cause and effect" than a decision about a simple technical rule that might be in question. No matter what is said about the amount of money involved, that it is "chicken feed" or something similar, if the unknown amount is anywhere near to that rumored, that is real money, and it is YOURS! Openness and transparency is required, or should be, of all elected officials, and it should not stop just because the thing that affects the spending of your money is a hobby.

[Brian Matheson]

Enough!

Bill, Please stop!

[hshawwpba]

Just what are your SOLUTIONS..Bash, Bash, Bash...w/o any postive feedback or suggestions...oh I know its Crown's Fault, It's APBA's Fault, It's THAT guy's fault, just WTH do you want?? I for one appreciated the Supplement and will also gladly pay $50/yr for a monthly print copy. I hope you get some PM's w/Addresses so the "wasted $$" will at least be utilized by someone who appreciates the supplement. BTW have you considered just not becoming a member of APBA? Then all your complaints would be moot!..Thats it for me (for now)

Dear Mr. Rose Colored Glasses, if you research the APBA membership decline over the past 4 YEARS there are alot of other racers that have taken your suggestion and NOT JOINED APBA !!! I guess the road to success based on your comments is continue the decline by having members that are tried of the reckless spending and lack of accounting of our membership funds and race entires dollars we generate to support the cause just not join APBA going forward! Now that is a real good plan for growth. Less = more???
The $50 cost you speak of will soon need to $100 but then what is another $100 bucks to this effort based on the last few years of decline there is no reason to panic yet per your comments.
Have agreat day!

[hshawwpba]

Bill, Please stop!

Bill you have many on your side keep the info/comments flowing, the rats are restless and trying to hide from the spot light!