Grass Lake ASH Turn 1: You Make the Call

[bill boyes]

What makes you think that a paid turn judge is better than anyone else who has been racing for years.
I have been a turn judge many times and it is not easy.

[dwilderacer]

Turn Judge!

I directed a race last month that had only one incident... my turn judge was Fred Hauinstien and I must say that his expertise was worth it's weight in gold! find someone with that much knowledge and you are in good hands!

[22W]

There is a pic from turn one that substantiates what John Runne just posted. I wish the person that took the pic would post it here and end the discussion. Matt did not chop anyone.

Here you go! If you would like to question how much experience the turn judge had, I will help you. I have been actively racing every year since 1989. I don't think that I am a spring chicken when it comes to this stuff, and I am certainly not afraid to make a call. Unfortunately, I was focused on that second pack at the time. I took this pic a second before I put down the camera and watched what was happening. So often the trailing group of boats gets forgotten that I like to watch out for them. As you can see from the picture I took, it looked like the front group was pretty firmly established. I myself did NOT SEE THE EVENT. I apologize for that, but I am human. I can certainly see from the pic that the 32-E could not possibly have made a chop from his position. That is why the original call was reversed. Others in the turn thought the offending boat was another Sidewinder, but since there was far too much doubt the only correct call was a NO CALL. It may have sounded like there were a bunch of idiots in the turn but I assure you all there was a lot of discussion about what was observed clearly and not so clearly which continued until well after the class was off the water. Keep in mind that this was a class run in the morning with the rising sun behind turn fin spray which makes it hard to see once the lead boat starts it's arc. Again I am sorry because I do believe Colin was hosed, but we could not be certain as to the offender so could not make a call in this case.

Respectfully,
Ryan Burdick

[22W]

Also, I cropped the original pic to better see the boats. For reference, The lead boat at the time the pic was taken was only about five boat lengths from the first pin.

[dt 01]

my post

just to make my post clear..I am just trying to think of answer to stop all the *****ing about turn judges Ryan you or no other turn judge should have to deal with this every year! I am not or ever said the judges were wrong at this race or that Matt choped anyone....just saying try something new and don't make a guy or girl whole NAT. weekend ruined because they did or didnt make a call and now they have to listen to this kinda stuff!! it's not fair to the person who paided money to be at the event...

[22W]

Not to worry, I am pretty darn thick-skinned. That is why I am not afraid to go into the first turn judge position at a National event. Might I have missed one? You bet. I feel bad for that. But I won't hesitate for a second to do it again. We are all volunteers out there and do the best we can. Paying people won't necessarily solve this problem. Better vantage points would be great, but not always practical. If you race in enough events like this, you will eventually end up in the "piggy in the middle" lane. It sucks, and we have all been there, but it is a busy first turn at Nationals.

[L. Allen]

Can we talk about something else now?

[csh2z]

Ryan,
I did not mean to imply any competency issues, hopefully that's not how you took it. One turn judge cannot possibly see everything that happens in a turn. There should be two or three qualified drivers acting as turn judges per turn, particularly for a nationals finals. In the end, you made the right call. That's all that matters.
Laurie, this is a boat racing forum. If you want to talk about knitting or cooking,laundry issues, interior decorating (doileys or coasters, what's your preference?), scrapbooking or whatever, you came to the wrong place!!! See you at Lock Haven, do you still have my picture under you pillow?

[rumleyfips]

Angel wings

Russ:

The picture from Silver Lake is actually a boat Fred Nelson built in the mid 70's. I think Wyatt drove it . I can't remember who 48N was.

I didn't wear angel wings often.

I appreciate the old Region 2 pictures STU posted.

John McManus 69-CE

[ricochet112]

Can we talk about something else now?

How about sponson tips!

It's good to know that I can win Nats or set a record and not have to be worried about any non speed tech violation after I have received my safety inspection sticker. Numbers, safety wire, Snell rating...thanks for to the new ideology of the SORC.

Being an inseptor, this is a slap in the face for us. Matt and the SORC that voted to allow Matt to receive first place, shame on you. Rules should be enforced to the letter at Nats, not trampled on.

[Waterson Racing Team]

How about sponson tips!

It's good to know that I can win Nats or set a record and not have to be worried about any non speed tech violation after I have received my safety inspection sticker. Numbers, safety wire, Snell rating...thanks for to the new ideology of the SORC.

Being an inseptor, this is a slap in the face for us. Matt and the SORC that voted to allow Matt to receive first place, shame on you. Rules should be enforced to the letter at Nats, not trampled on.

Neither Matt nor George issued inspection stickers for this boat. It has been inspected by APBA inspectors for a couple years now and passed. They were told the boat needed to be fixed before the next race. Not Matt or Georges fault.

[Val16E]

I think this thread has been informative. It can show that turn boat duty is not a time to get a tan or just sit out there. This thread has detailed rules and what the responsibilities of turn boat judges are.
Take aways: matt did not chop Collin. Turn boat judges must be attentive and aware of the rules for driving infractions. Safety inspections need to be consistent even at local races.
Go fast turn left!
Val aka miss America

[Waterson Racing Team]

glad that same courtesy was extended to a D stock driver for an access hole used to route a wire for starting his motor. it's nice that rules at the 2012 nats were a willy nilley set of guidelines loosely enforced for some and used to pitch others.

on a different note. when i VOLUNTEER to be turn judge. i stand in the boat at the most forward position closely watching the turn. i don't think playing photographer is doing diligence to the racers who count on you in a very critical position.

I was amazed at the DSH call as well. If a starter is legal there has to be a way to run wires. You won't hear me argue there. People need to make their lists and attend the annual meeting or share it with the higher powers.

We were victim of 3 chops. One left a hole in the boat but none were called.
Unfortunately it happens.

[Big Don]

How about sponson tips!

It's good to know that I can win Nats or set a record and not have to be worried about any non speed tech violation after I have received my safety inspection sticker. Numbers, safety wire, Snell rating...thanks for to the new ideology of the SORC.

Being an inseptor, this is a slap in the face for us. Matt and the SORC that voted to allow Matt to receive first place, shame on you. Rules should be enforced to the letter at Nats, not trampled on.

Dave could have filed a protest, he chose not to. We have no clue how that vote would have been. I seem to remember Andy Hanson being DQ'ed in New York one year for a plug falling out of his belly pan. Rules are there and are to be enforced by the inspector, what happens after that is out of his hands.

What was missed is, when writing the rules was what to do if you install an elec start.

Don't blame the inspector for doing his job. If Dave wanted to he could have taken it to the next step. He chose not to.

A slap in the face? Really? I slap in the face would have been to take a nationals away from someone that earned in on the course after an approved inspector gave it a sticker.

[Big Don]

glad that same courtesy was extended to a D stock driver for an access hole used to route a wire for starting his motor. it's nice that rules at the 2012 nats were a willy nilley set of guidelines loosely enforced for some and used to pitch others.

on a different note. when i VOLUNTEER to be turn judge. i stand in the boat at the most forward position closely watching the turn. i don't think playing photographer is doing diligence to the racers who count on you in a very critical position.

Come on Bill, don't stoop to that level. First Ryan was NOT playing photographer, he told us in a meeting that before the turn he snaps a picture with his phone just in case he has to go back to figure out a boat number or something as a reference. He said he put the phone down to watch the corner.

Nothing was loosely enforced. MHRA has some of the best officials this country has, and they did a great job. Are you implying they played favorites? I'm really sorry for you if that is what you were saying.