Stock Outboard classes:

[drbyrne55]

O Contre'

John, Your point is well taken .... I'm not a runabout guy so I'll leave it alone to those in the know....

The counterpoint is the current production Yamato 302 has a significant upside. Owners love the engine and Yamato support. Secondly, and most importantly it is growing the 20SSH class (out West) and helping CSH stay strong. I think we had eliminations in both 20SSH and CSH several times in region 10 (2007).

Maybe fix the runabout problem as a separate issue? Take the growing 20SSh class and Add the Sidewinder to the existing 20SSH mix ..... that should keep Sidewinder supporters happy and the existing Yamato owners happy. Just think One big happy family!

Dan, The primary reason for the plan is so that people know what's coming in the future in order to plan for it. For example: People buying or planning to buy a 302 should know that at some point within the next 3-4-5 years the 302 will be phased out of 20SSH. And probably be phased out of 25SSR after next season, again due to the different size boats. We're trying to do this as painlessly as possible and still open the market for the manufacturer to get results as quickly as possible. The use of the Yamato's in 25SSR has nearly killed the CSR. What we've done, has created two weaker classes. CSR divided by 2 = 1/2.

[Trihedral_1]

20ss

…some facts about 20ss hydro.


Fact: a Y-302 has set two competition records in the last two years.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA National High Points in 2006.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA Winter Nationals in 2007.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA Nationals in 2007.
Fact: a Y-80 won AOF Nationals in 2006 (.78mile course).

Fact: the drivers that did all of the above have only been in the 20ss class for three years or less…

Fact: my 17yr old hydro goes 67+mph with a restricted Y-302.

Fact: there is no Sidewinder currently available for the 20ss class.

Fact: I have clamped on an 80, 102, and 302 in the same weekend.

Fact: 20ss rules state that you can run a Y-80, a restricted Y-102, or a restricted 302.

You figure it out.

Jimi O (305-R)

PS: One motor per class, please…..

[drbyrne55]

You figure it out ....

Or should it be "you figured it out"...


Great post Jimi,

Given the 20SS rules .... engine choice just becomes part the puzzle .... might as well make it 4 choices! Some say hmmmm... fun Most classes have this huge parity issue when multiple engines are allowed but this is not the case here .... in fact, it seems to be embraced .... go figure. Hopefully, someone will better the numbers in 2008.

Can't argue with Jimi's facts ... and a few have learned from the 305!

…some facts about 20ss hydro.


Fact: a Y-302 has set two competition records in the last two years.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA National High Points in 2006.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA Winter Nationals in 2007.
Fact: a Y-302 won APBA Nationals in 2007.
Fact: a Y-80 won AOF Nationals in 2006 (.78mile course).

Fact: the drivers that did all of the above have only been in the 20ss class for three years or less…

Fact: my 17yr old hydro goes 67+mph with a restricted Y-302.

Fact: there is no Sidewinder currently available for the 20ss class.

Fact: I have clamped on an 80, 102, and 302 in the same weekend.

Fact: 20ss rules state that you can run a Y-80, a restricted Y-102, or a restricted 302.

You figure it out.

Jimi O (305-R)

PS: One motor per class, please…..

[ryan_4z]

Jimi, Would you support 20ssH being just the Y 80 again, as your "one motor per class" request suggests? Just so you know, I am a pretty big advocate for the "one motor per class" idea.

Dan, You make some good points. I wouldn't mind seeing the restricted Cs around for 3-4 more years, but we have to put some kind of time limit on it this year so that everyone knows for sure, particularly new racers. I am wondering though, what is all this talk about factory support from Yamato? Unless you are talking about Ric Montoya, I didn't know Yamato did anything to support Stock racing other than selling us their used motors.

[seanp3]

I am wondering though, what is all this talk about factory support from Yamato? Unless you are talking about Ric Montoya, I didn't know Yamato did anything to support Stock racing other than selling us their used motors.

That is exactly it. We have had a lot of help from Ric and no problem at all with getting parts from him

[drbyrne55]

100 or so

I wonder if Yamato helped get those 100 or so 302's in the country that Ric has in stock?

Who's footing the bill for the NEW 402 development?

Jimi, Would you support 20ssH being just the Y 80 again, as your "one motor per class" request suggests? Just so you know, I am a pretty big advocate for the "one motor per class" idea.

Dan, You make some good points. I wouldn't mind seeing the restricted Cs around for 3-4 more years, but we have to put some kind of time limit on it this year so that everyone knows for sure, particularly new racers. I am wondering though, what is all this talk about factory support from Yamato? Unless you are talking about Ric Montoya, I didn't know Yamato did anything to support Stock racing other than selling us their used motors.

[Charlie Pater]

Yamato currently has motors and parts available for 20ssh, 25ssr, csh and csr. A new driver can purchase a new 302 and currently race all 4 stock classes. That new driver can also race Pro class osy 400. The cost for a new race ready 302 is approximately one half the projected cost of a sidewinder. With the new plan of classes after 2008 the Yamato motors are projected be the dominant motor in only 2 stock classes csh and csr. To me it does not make sense to take away classes from the lower cost alternative to make way for the more expensive sidewinder. We need to figure a way out of this situation.

[jeff55v]

A little history question.

If I remember right, The restricted C Yamato was introduced into 20ss as a way to prop up the classes dwindling numbers. I think the 20 motor (Yamato 80)was getting very difficult to find. If the sidwinder is available as a legal 20 motor, doesn't that negate the need to have restricted C motors in the class?
Maybe someone who knows more about this can refresh my memory. When the concept was first introduced, What was the reasoning behind running a restricted C in the 20 class?
Thanks.

[MARATHONMAN]

Add A Marathon

If You Want To Add Boats And Seat Time Run A Marathon . You Don,t Have To Have A Fancy Course Set Up To Do This. What Happens Is That You Get People To Go For A Twenty Minute Boat Ride + If You Have 20 Boats At $ 25 .= 500.00 This Is $25.00 Per Minute . Also When I Drive 500 Miles I Like To Drive My Boat . Also We Race The Short Course And Add These #,s Up . If You Run Twenty Miutes You May Need A 2 Gallon Tank. This Year At Grass Lake The Marathon Added 45 Entries. And At Big Rapids It Added 55 Entries. Plus How Many Marathon Drivers Raced The Short Course ? 30 . That Adds A Nice Dollar To These Events. By The Way We Also Have Added 2 New Drivers At These Races And There Hooked. Just A Good Way To Get New People And Add Numbers. Mike 51-m

[drbyrne55]

Sense ....

hopefully the newly elected will LISTEN to someone of your experience!


[QUOTE=Charlie Pater;91093]Yamato currently has motors and parts available for 20ssh, 25ssr, csh and csr. A new driver can purchase a new 302 and currently race all 4 stock classes. That new driver can also race Pro class osy 400. The cost for a new race ready 302 is approximately one half the projected cost of a sidewinder. With the new plan of classes after 2008 the Yamato motors are projected be the dominant motor in only 2 stock classes csh and csr. To me it does not make sense to take away classes from the lower cost alternative to make way for the more expensive sidewinder. We need to figure a way out of this situation.[/QUOTE]

UIM makes engine life span very clear ..... 102 out end of 2007 and the 302 out in 2116 for what its worth ... I assume they are supporting the current production Yamato.

No UIM homolog. Manufacturer Type Year Stroke Total Cylinder Capacity Cylinder Bore Stroke Engine Validity
309 Tohatsu M40C 1983 2 493,4 2 70 64 31/03/2008
331 Yamaha 90AET 1984 2 1 140,00 3 82 72 2010
355 Yamato Yamato 102 1985 2 399 2 66 58 31/12/2007
376 Yamaha 30D 1986 2 499 2 59,5 59,5 2014
396 Tohatsu M25C/M25C2/M25C3 1987 2 429,6 2 68,02 59 2009
397 Tohatsu M30A2/M30A3/M30A4 1987 2 429,6 2 68,02 59 2009
403 Yamaha 25 N 1988 2 395 2 67 56 2011
407 Tohatsu M90A 1988 2 1 267,50 3 86 72,7 2008
408 Yamato 202 1988 2 397 2 66 58 2015
420 Lamborghini L804 V4 1989 4 8 171,38 12 98,7 89 2012
432 Mercury XR2 1990 2 1 999 6 79,38 67,31 2010
435 Yamaha 70CES1990 Model 1990 2 850 3 71,92 69,5 2011
440 Engitalia 8V92Victory1000.U 1990 2 12 072 8 121 127 2010
443 Mercury 2.5EFI 1991 2 2 525 6 88,93 67,31 31/12/2007
444 Yamaha 200CETO 1991 2 2 596 6 90 68 31/12/2007
446 Tohatsu M15B2 1991 2 247, 1 2 55 52 2013
459 Selva S405 XS 1992 2 399 2 65,1 60 2010
460 Omc 200/225 1993 2 2 998 6 93,6 72,59 2009
462 Yamaha OV 46 1993 2 2 596 6 90 68 2008
463 Tohatsu M50D 1993 2 698 3 68 64 2009
470 Mercury 2.5 EFI 1994 2 2 525 6 88,93 67,31 31/12/2007
472 Mercury 90 1994 2 1 389 3 88,93 74,42 2010
475 Yamato 302 1995 2 400 2 66 58 31/03/2016
476 Mercury S3000 1995 2 2 528 6 88,93 67,31 2010
477 Sterling SPI 496 1995 4 8 136 8 114,3 98,4 2005