Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Stock Outboard classes:

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Stock Outboard classes:

    The proposed "transition" of 3 classes ( A,15SS, 20SS) is dependent on Sidewinder.

    Risk Management ...

    It seems odd that we (at least in region 10) are growing some new racers/teams from the ability to use a restricted 302 Yamato in 20SSH only to have some propose to remove the 302R. It has taken a few years for the 302R to compete with the Yamato 80 but both 302R and 80 owners seem happy with the parity (wow!).

    There's a great likelihood Yamato corporation will likely be around in the years to come. The 302 ($2100) supply ( I heard) with RPM marine will last 5 years or more at which time we import more 302's (EPA?) or will the 402 be here as a used product.

    It seems more prudent to target maybe 2 classes such as "A" and 15 for the Sidewinder (as proposed) and allow the Sidewinder 20 into 20SSH with the current 20/302Yamatos. I think this would be better for growth of new racers/teams that don't begin in the J class.

    I would like to hear opinions about the future of 20SSH.

    Dan




    From National Meeting 2007.................

    • Focus on attracting new racers.


    • Old motors need to fade away.


    The committee presented a report to the SORC at the 2007 National Meeting. It included the following basic elements:


    • A class structure with a four-year transition plan for motors (see table).


    • Specific goals for each class with proposals to achieve these goals.


    • Minimum class participation standards for national status.


    The proposed class structure is an effort to work back to a simpler structure consisting of 12 Stock Outboard classes: A, 15SS, B, C, and D (Runabout and Hydro), 25SSH, and 45SST.



    A key component of the plan is to transition the A, B, 20SSH, and 25SSR classes to the new Sidewinder motors being produced by Racing Outboards LLC over the next few years. These four would morph into the A, 15SS, and B classes, with the Sidewinder 15 and 20 motors eventually becoming the favored motors. The current primary motors in these classes are 15-30 years old. The intention is to avoid prolonging the life of out-of-production motors if there is a viable alternate available.


    A critical part of this transition is Racing Outboards being able to deliver motors. They have made great progress and expectations are high. We feel that if they can maintain the schedule that they expect, than these motors should have the opportunity to move into our class structure as soon as possible. The future of these classes is reliant upon the success of the Sidewinder project.
    BOPP

  • #2
    Dan, The 20 sidewinder IS going into the 20SSH. Eventually(4-5-6 years) the yamato's will be phased out. For the Runabouts, they will go into the 25SSR class. The current plan calls for the removal of the Yamato's from 25SSR in 2009, leaving the Merc 25 and the Sidewinder 20. The reason for this is due to the problems with running large boats against smaller boats.
    John Runne
    2-Z

    Stock Outboard is all about a level playing field.

    True parity is one motor per class.

    It's RACING, not just another boat ride!

    NOT a representative of Racing Outboards LLC.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by csh2z View Post
      Dan, The 20 sidewinder IS going into the 20SSH. Eventually(4-5-6 years) the yamato's will be phased out. For the Runabouts, they will go into the 25SSR class. The current plan calls for the removal of the Yamato's from 25SSR in 2009, leaving the Merc 25 and the Sidewinder 20. The reason for this is due to the problems with running large boats against smaller boats.
      John-

      Will the 25SSR runabout class become the "B" class? My understanding of the proposed plan is that we will end up with the following (please correct me if I'm misunderstanding this):

      Hydro & Runabout
      A
      15
      B
      C
      D

      Comment


      • #4
        So at the end of the day if I run a SO/J event I will have 14 classes (I'm headed somewhere with this)?
        Last edited by 14J; 10-16-2007, 02:37 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          20SSH/ B class

          Thanks John,

          I thought the proposal ( table from June or July issue of Propeller) read as to take the 302 out of 20SSH (B class) in 2009 and just leave the Yamato 80 and the Sidewinder20. Leaving the 302 in 20SSH for at least 5-6 years after the Sidewinder 20 is readily availabe makes sense and I'm happy to hear that from your experienced viewpoint. The 20SSH (to be renamed B class) class seems to be a growing class ( at least out on the Left coast) due to the 302R getting more competitive against the 80. On the otherside it will be nice to take the Sidewinder15 and up convert to a 20 for those starting with A or 15. The 20SSH ( B class) class should be a very innovative class in years to come.... ie... continued growth.

          Thanks again for the clarification and could someone post the proposed table of classes from the 2007 national meeting so we can all review them again.

          Dan





          Originally posted by csh2z View Post
          Dan, The 20 sidewinder IS going into the 20SSH. Eventually(4-5-6 years) the yamato's will be phased out. For the Runabouts, they will go into the 25SSR class. The current plan calls for the removal of the Yamato's from 25SSR in 2009, leaving the Merc 25 and the Sidewinder 20. The reason for this is due to the problems with running large boats against smaller boats.
          BOPP

          Comment


          • #6
            John, I'm not in this hunt but I want to thank you for your no nonsense answer to the many questions that have arisen on this subject in the last few weeks. I appreciate your knowledge and mature approach to this issue which, rightfully so, is very important to a lot of folks. Thanks John for your service, interest, and devotion to our sport. Jack L. Stotts

            Comment


            • #7
              Troy, Yes.
              The class names will change.
              Dan, Due to the delays, the proposal from the 2007 meeting will also change. The new timeline still has to be developed, we wouldn't want to mislead anybody with speculation.
              John Runne
              2-Z

              Stock Outboard is all about a level playing field.

              True parity is one motor per class.

              It's RACING, not just another boat ride!

              NOT a representative of Racing Outboards LLC.

              Comment


              • #8
                Not too bad...

                Originally posted by 14J View Post
                So at the end of the day if I run a SO/J event I will have 14 classes (I'm headed somewhere with this)?
                ...if you run 7 classes one day and 7 the next....
                David Weaver

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks John....

                  I think the confusion stems from the published table in Propeller left out the 302 after 2008 in the B/20SSH class. Column 2009 and beyond, it looked as if the current model Yamato (the 302) was being left out and the the Yamato 80 being kept which doesn't really makes sense....

                  Thanks again for the clarification that the 302 will be kept in the B/20 class for a few more years per the proposal that will probably need to be ammended in 2008.

                  Looking forward to seeing a Sidewinder out here on a boat !







                  Originally posted by csh2z View Post
                  Troy, Yes.
                  The class names will change.
                  Dan, Due to the delays, the proposal from the 2007 meeting will also change. The new timeline still has to be developed, we wouldn't want to mislead anybody with speculation.
                  Last edited by drbyrne55; 10-16-2007, 03:13 PM.
                  BOPP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stock Outboard Classes

                    I'd like to enroll, where will they be?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Weaver View Post
                      ...if you run 7 classes one day and 7 the next....


                      I think classes with numbers get priority. Maybe these classes run (3) days of racing over (2) days. Maybe the (3-4) boat classes run once over the weekend.

                      With 14 classes and a few elim's we're left with 30+ heats of racing each day. I'm not seeing this issue addressed. I think it's still to much.

                      To anyone:

                      What is the need for 15? Seems it should be A B C D + J Classes


                      Troy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Let's assume we have available motors and plenty of local race sites. How do we sell the new racer on this investment:

                        Spend 6k-7k on a rig and run 12 laps over (2) days. Want more water time? Add a second class. Assuming I can't use the same motor/boat combination I now have to spend another 6k-7k.

                        Why wouldn't I buy a cart or a dirt bike for roughly the same price, run several heats, and who knows how many laps on a Saturday night?

                        What's our value proposition?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ok Troy let me break this down so even you can understand this. Lets say 4 boats show up each pays say 30.00 to run 4 times 30 is 120.00 times two days = 240.00 the club gets. Say each heat takes 10 mins to run times 4 = 40 mins over two days. Now divide 40 into 240.00 and it comes to 6.00 a min that the club makes versus 0 if they dont run. Now do you really think that someone is going to drive 500 to 600 hundred miles and spend two days at a race to get to run once they may once but Im sure they will go else where the week before or the week after and take that weekend off. You are not going to get a 3 or 4 hour race day unless you pray for 40 mile an hour winds. At this point with the amount of racers if a club is going to make enough to stay in bussiness they have to draw as many boats they can which means in some classes on some days there will only be 4 boats in that class. Gee where is the Captain when hes needed, up here tomorrow getting his boat fixed
                          Destiny is a matter of chance,it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G Stillwill View Post
                            Ok Troy let me break this down so even you can understand this. Lets say 4 boats show up each pays say 30.00 to run 4 times 30 is 120.00 times two days = 240.00 the club gets. Say each heat takes 10 mins to run times 4 = 40 mins over two days. Now divide 40 into 240.00 and it comes to 6.00 a min that the club makes versus 0 if they dont run. Now do you really think that someone is going to drive 500 to 600 hundred miles and spend two days at a race to get to run once they may once but Im sure they will go else where the week before or the week after and take that weekend off. You are not going to get a 3 or 4 hour race day unless you pray for 40 mile an hour winds. At this point with the amount of racers if a club is going to make enough to stay in bussiness they have to draw as many boats they can which means in some classes on some days there will only be 4 boats in that class. Gee where is the Captain when hes needed, up here tomorrow getting his boat fixed

                            You're missing the point. If we continue to look at sort term financial gains we will never move this thing in the right direction. Let me break this down so even you can understand, look at the BIG PICTURE.

                            My questions were based on an assumption that no one has to drive 500-600 miles to a race. Assume you have local races.

                            To many classes dilutes the driver pool. Long programs with little water time is difficult to market to a prospective racer, and yes George I know about Marketing. I make a very good living in the Event Marketing Business.

                            It's unfortunate that entry fees have become a necessary evil, it's clouded the thought process.

                            George I'm not loosing entry fees from the BS classes either. The thought would be to give the largest 3-4 classes an extra day of racing over the weekend. The money still comes in and the classes with the largest support get water time. Maybe this forces guys to re-evaluate what they run.

                            Come on 4 boats! The sport is called BOAT RACING.

                            Finally my discussion pertains to SO not the J category.

                            Troy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Growth ....

                              My whole point was to bring to the table that region 10 is growing the 20SSH class DIRECTLY with the 302. We regularly have close to a full field. The way I read the future class proposal table was that the 302 was being left out of 20/B after 2008. This would hurt growth .... in 20 and CSH. The growth of 20SSH (via the 302) is helping with full fields of CSH....

                              If I understood John's reply .... the 302 will be kept in 20SS/B for the next several years .... which seems logical.





                              Originally posted by 14J View Post
                              You're missing the point. If we continue to look at sort term financial gains we will never move this thing in the right direction. Let me break this down so even you can understand, look at the BIG PICTURE.

                              My questions were based on an assumption that no one has to drive 500-600 miles to a race. Assume you have local races.

                              To many classes dilutes the driver pool. Long programs with little water time is difficult to market to a prospective racer, and yes George I know about Marketing. I make a very good living in the Event Marketing Business.

                              It's unfortunate that entry fees have become a necessary evil, it's clouded the thought process.

                              George I'm not loosing entry fees from the BS classes either. The thought would be to give the largest 3-4 classes an extra day of racing over the weekend. The money still comes in and the classes with the largest support get water time. Maybe this forces guys to re-evaluate what they run.

                              Come on 4 boats! The sport is called BOAT RACING.

                              Finally my discussion pertains to SO not the J category.

                              Troy
                              BOPP

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X