Stock Chairman's Long Term Plan

[sponsonhead]

It's been done.

it just seems to me that if they had been ran often and hard this summer . Then this winter some kind of parity could have been found
alas im simple i quess

Kev,

You're not simple at all. I ran 15 races in DSH this year and at every race I competed in there was AT LEAST one Tohatsu running in D. Sometimes they beat me, sometimes they didn't.

The point is we had a good hard season of racing in D in Region 10 and the Tohatsus were active participants. Data has been gathered by Troy Holmberg (99R on this board) and has been passed on to the Parity Committee.

It's also interesting to note that the National High Point Champ and runner up in DSH at Nationals came from our neck of the woods, and like me, he competed against the Tohatsus week in and week out. Only difference is that he won almost all the races. And he did it with a Merc 44XS.

Hopefully the Parity Committee will take the data and make appropriate changes as needed.

R-19

[daveracerdsh]

Dsh

Very interesting thread. I also ran just about every race in region 10 this last season, and Pat Gleason is correct. The fastest DSH rig in area runs a 44XS. I was at times able to beat the Tohatsu, but from my view as a driver we need to reduce the height restriction. Maybe take it up to 1/4 below the bottom? Just a thought. I for one applaude Ed Heard for the job he did as Stock chairman on the Tohatsu issue. I was there at every single meeting, at without his guidance we would not have the motor in DSH...plain and simple. Was it handled perfectly? Who knows, but what issue, whether it involves racing or something else, is EVER handled perfectly with so many diff. viewpoints involved. Another point.....all people have to do is look at what happens to a racing organization when new equipment is not available...there is a decline in membership...pure and simple. I can understand people wanting to protect equipment...I could buy a very nice used car with what I have into my 44XS...But, I am going to buy a new Tohatsu soon. DaveRacer

[mercguy]

Darren: You are exactly right about the reason for the C2 classes. The membership at the time was petrified that the new engine would beat the old. The plan was for C2 for three years with the 302 and 102 in that class and then merge C (which only had the 102 as a legal engine) and C2 at the fourth year. Then, after it became apparent that the 302 was slower, we still played hell trying to get rid of the C2 classes and keep the plan. There was nearly a war at the annual meeting since the SORC voted to keep the C2 classes separate from C even after the 3 years was up. I was able to convince the APBA new class committee that this should not happen since the new class committee had only granted permission for the C2 classes to exist for 3 years, not indefinitely. Ultimately the APBA BOD forced the SORC to stick to the plan. But this was a classic example of people protecting their turf. They wanted to keep more classes for the Yamatos to run in.

The problem is that, 10 years later, the old engine still has a slight edge in the CSH class and we can't do anything about it because people are protecting their stuff.

BTW: I don't need analytical data to know that the 102 has a slight edge in CSH. All's I have to see is Miskerik buy 102s (and I've never discussed this matter with him) and see Billy Allen stop running his 302s to know that the disparity still exists.

The cry for data is always lodged by those who want to keep the status quo since they know we have little resources to get this information. Then, if we are lucky to get some data, we hear cries like you have made that it is not reliable for whatever the reason.

The best information comes from what we see on the race course. Ed.

Ed says "The problem is that, 10 years later, the old engine still has a slight edge in the CSH class and we can't do anything about it because people are protecting their stuff.

BTW: I don't need analytical data to know that the 102 has a slight edge in CSH. All's I have to see is Miskerik buy 102s (and I've never discussed this matter with him) and see Billy Allen stop running his 302s to know that the disparity still exists."

again, I do not think it is a "protection issue". If I thought the 102's were so dominant, then why would I be selling my 102's. I know.....mine are not fast. But, like stated before, Miserik and Billy are used to winning all the time and why would they want to step back and start over with the 302? Plus, I am sure these guys have access to some of the best equipment available. You are still just basing this decision on what happens on the East Coast, not listening to what happens on the West Coast. Hell, just about every driver racing CSH or OSY in Reg10 has made the change to 302's. Are they as fast as the East Coast 102's, maybe not quite yet (but I believe they are), since they have not spent 10yrs perfecting their 302 setups. I believe even Gary Lewis (Reg12) made the change over to 302's, cause they were faster than his 102's. Is he slow??? No, he is not. So, maybe before you make your "decision", you will actually listen to all members in the APBA running the class. Ed, when you come out for the Winter Nat's, you will see the 102 vs. 302 comparison and can make evaluate your ideas then. Look at the 20SSH and CSR high points winners for this season..............they run 302's! I also believe J. Michael Kelly and Jamie Nilsen can run with the top 102 guys in the country and they run 302's in CSH (and OSY)........

all I am asking is that you make your decision AFTER you see what is going on in the ENTIRE country, not just on the East Coast, that's all........

[mercguy]

Why not come run your Tahatsu at some NBRA races, keep the test data and provide it to the parity comittee. In NBRA there are no restrictions on height. It is a highly competitive D engine. In NBRA D is still the 40CI Mod motor. Makes for an exciting race watching this stocker keeping up with the Mod. Fans like it too. The boat that is currently racing is a Ropp hydro, older design, seems to work okay. I am sure new technology could provide a faster ride.

Also, Darren, were I you, I would set that engine wherever you want to height wise at an APBA race. Despite what the rules say, the engine needs to be given a fair chance. Make it competitive, and then you can show the results to them. Sure, you will not get points, DQ in inspection, but if you want it to advance, then I say go for it.

Dave, NBRA races are too far away from me. But, we have AOF races out here and will enter them.......

[mercguy]

Ed......

it makes no sense to me why the members of the SORC commission would be upset for Bass Machines NOT paying to have the engine delivered. If it was such a big issue, then the SORC should have payed for it. Did not the SORC fund and support the 44XS tower project?

now, the Bass Tohatsu did show up to compete at the Winter Nat's, but certain people got all pissy and banned the motor.......would that have happened at the Nat's.......probably so............

do you have an answer for this???????

[mike ross]

Darren, Bass Brothers made the agreement to ship the motor as part of the approval process. We were not going to approve it and they came to the meeting with this proposal and that is what promted us to move ahead in there favor of approving it. It was when the motor importing became an issue and we couldn't get our hands on one to test in the timeline that was laid out that we looked into other viable option. We had a SORC meeting about using the gentlemans motor from Illinois and would we take responsibility for this motor in the event it blew up during dyno testing. The vote was no and the reason was we felt the Factory made the deal and should live up to proposal they made at the national meeting. We extended there time line to work out a reasonable solution. Keep in mind we are counting down to the beginning of the season where this would now be a legal motor. We didn't have what we said we would have so it was a rush rush to get it done or this motor was on hold for another year. You all on the left coast are doing a great job promoting the new motor. Keep it up. The data you provided to the SORC and parity committee will get you your changes. If we get new data quickly we could have maybe changed this earlier. That is the cool thing is as we get data we can change things. Don't wait till the end of the year to submit. Get out test and get the data back with a can we make this change . It then goes in front of the Pairity Commitee and SORC for a decision. Getting a new motor somehow on the East coast would just help enlighten the rest of the US on what it looks like and how it runs. Who knows maybe it gets dusted by Palmquist and they decide to help it out more somehow. This hopefully helps with how the approval process was set up from the start. Mike

[reed28n]

Plan

You are beginning the process that needs to happen.. Class reduction but places for everyone to race. Sustainable obtainable goals.......don't throw the whole bowl of spaghetti at the fridge.......

[daveracerdsh]

Tohatsu

Darren: I have been following this latest thread with great intrest...I do feel there are to many classes in outboard racing, with to many people stirring the pot for the the number of participents involved. That being said...I am having a hard time understand why you are going after Ed Hearn and the rest of the commission over the aprroval process for the Tohatsu. I was and still am a commssioner, and trust me, there are still hard feelings over aprroval of motor. What is the point of rehashing everything? Like I said in an earlier post, without Ed's guidance on matter, you would most likely not have a new boat and motor, and we in DSH would still be scrounging around for parts to keep 15 year old 44XS motors running (well, I still am) ...I suppose I am missing the whole point as to why you are upset over this stuff. RacerDave

[14-H]

***all I am asking is that you make your decision AFTER you see what is going on in the ENTIRE country, not just on the East Coast, that's all........

Darren: Michigan is not on the East Coast. Ed.

[mercguy]

Darren, Bass Brothers made the agreement to ship the motor as part of the approval process. We were not going to approve it and they came to the meeting with this proposal and that is what promted us to move ahead in there favor of approving it. It was when the motor importing became an issue and we couldn't get our hands on one to test in the timeline that was laid out that we looked into other viable option. We had a SORC meeting about using the gentlemans motor from Illinois and would we take responsibility for this motor in the event it blew up during dyno testing. The vote was no and the reason was we felt the Factory made the deal and should live up to proposal they made at the national meeting. We extended there time line to work out a reasonable solution. Keep in mind we are counting down to the beginning of the season where this would now be a legal motor. We didn't have what we said we would have so it was a rush rush to get it done or this motor was on hold for another year. You all on the left coast are doing a great job promoting the new motor. Keep it up. The data you provided to the SORC and parity committee will get you your changes. If we get new data quickly we could have maybe changed this earlier. That is the cool thing is as we get data we can change things. Don't wait till the end of the year to submit. Get out test and get the data back with a can we make this change . It then goes in front of the Pairity Commitee and SORC for a decision. Getting a new motor somehow on the East coast would just help enlighten the rest of the US on what it looks like and how it runs. Who knows maybe it gets dusted by Palmquist and they decide to help it out more somehow. This hopefully helps with how the approval process was set up from the start. Mike

thanks so much Mike. This is the info I was looking to hear. Thank you for providing the time to write it out here. I am sure you and the others involved will make the right decisions. I will also try and collect data throughout next year on the Tohatsu performance and provide, if needed.

[mercguy]

Ok.........

Darren: Michigan is not on the East Coast. Ed.

North Coast.....

[mercguy]

Darren: I have been following this latest thread with great intrest...I do feel there are to many classes in outboard racing, with to many people stirring the pot for the the number of participents involved. That being said...I am having a hard time understand why you are going after Ed Hearn and the rest of the commission over the aprroval process for the Tohatsu. I was and still am a commssioner, and trust me, there are still hard feelings over aprroval of motor. What is the point of rehashing everything? Like I said in an earlier post, without Ed's guidance on matter, you would most likely not have a new boat and motor, and we in DSH would still be scrounging around for parts to keep 15 year old 44XS motors running (well, I still am) ...I suppose I am missing the whole point as to why you are upset over this stuff. RacerDave

trust me, I still would have a new BOAT and MOTOR!

[Freedom Fighter]

2 cents, maybe

Hey Ed, I remember when there was not mod catigorie, just stock and pro. After the Mod catgorie started, I think alot of guys went to Mod because they were to lazy to work hard enough to win in Stock.

Plus people in America are broke, so when you threaten to take away their class and they have to spend more money or time to change their equipment they get up set. (Government survey, 96% of people are dead or broke at 65)

We used to have 100+ ASH and ASR's at the nats when there was no Mod catagory. We had 35 or 40 in our region. Now that is competition.

Hey, Why don't you take up camping and hunting. It is way more peaceful. And the animals don't give you any bs.

take care.

God Bless.

[nbass]

Stock Tohatsus will continue to be produced

I will not get involved in the political discussion, but will state that a stock Tohatsu D will continue to be produced as long as they are needed by AOF, NBRA, APBA and any other racing organization. We currently make no profit on the powerhead so we do not stock a number of powerheads for purchase. We order 3 to 6 powerheads as the demand occurs. If we get to the point where orders are up we may stock a few to have on-hand. Otherwise, we will order on an as needed basis, however many that may be.

Making boat-racing equipment is a low volume low profit operation. I think OMC and Mercury concluded exactly that. However, building ten to twenty engines each year is very doable for Bass Machines. It keeps the business in operation and it can be done for a reasonable cost to the racer. For us, sending out free engines is way beyond a reasonable request.

Thanks to all for their support and concerns.

Let’s quite arguing and go racing,
Neil Bass

[14-H]

***Hey, Why don't you take up camping and hunting. It is way more peaceful. And the animals don't give you any bs.

take care.

God Bless.

I don't know about that. I seem to remember something about having to tie your food up in a tree because of the bear???? Ed.