SO Yamato Rule Changes

[dholt]

Hey, Ed.

If you have a proposal for pairing down classes and combining existing equipment, why not share it here?

For real...what are your ideas? Because it seems all the general HR posts you make are singular...without a larger plan behind them. Fill the masses in...maybe they will see the light to make individual changes.

As you know, the SORC cannot always poll the inmates in the asylum when changes need to be made. It was not up to the members in the early 80's when the Merc was axed and the OMC brought in. It was not up to a vote in early 90's when 20ci 'B' classes were removed and replaced with 15ci. These decisions were made and we lived with the results.

Pure and simple...the 20ci Hot Rod WILL be the motor in 25ssR (or whatever it's called). In 'X' years...the Yamato is out. That's it. The SORC decides. This is just an example. What do you want to do?

[14-H]

"***
...and Ed, I'm sure your hired drivers would be interested in you becoming a Yamato owner. It looked like they enjoyed the ride at Oshkosh and Pleasant Prairie, maybe with some persuasion they could pull you to the dark side

(Start working on him boys!)

Donny: Erik thought the 20 was cool until he had to pick up the boat and the engine. Then he thought the B wasn't too bad. Urghhh!

[Ron Hill]

370 BU Weight???

370-240=130 Hmmm...What is BU weight???

Was it 370 when I ran BU in 1965???

Coolest class at the Louisiana Winter Nationals, I thought, was BU...Fins on the bottom where they belong. Sides on their boats..Driver appeared to help increase or decrease speeds...


Why Can I bore my Yamato 302 cyclinder .030 over and I can't bore he water pick up hole .030 over???

[14-H]

***
Why Can I bore my Yamato 302 cyclinder .030 over and I can't bore he water pick up hole .030 over???

Ron: I'm sure you've heard the phrase "apples and oranges"???

[greybeard]

BU in the '60s

Recall BSR weight at 395... 85lb 20H, 120lb runabout, 180lb me and 10lbs of lead...

[jon66w]

A plan for SO future???

I finally got to read through all 22 pages of this thread, WHEW!!!, and at the risk of again starting all the BS, I had a idea of something that could preserve the spirt of Stock Outboard racing while having the ability of buying new motors that would be competative "out of the Box".
New motors are coming out all the time that could be used as racing power heads with only changes that would make them more reliable at racing speeds like glass reeds, ect. allowed but no speed enhancing changes allowed. I'll leave it up to smarter people than me to allow blue printing if there's too much discrepancy between stock production motors altho this is what caused us too lose our "Innocence" in the 50's when the B Hot Rod and the conversion 20 H came about.Surveying only the major players in outboard production for their consistancy in holding tolerances might be a factor in approving new powerheads and new computor machines that only the "Big Boys" can afford and have the volume needed are making smaller tolerance spreads possible.
The thing that always seems to stop us in getting engine builders interested in supporting us is our need for special lower units, feet, gear ratios, clamps, ect to fit our small "Kneedown" boats which no longer resemble the pleasure boats of today and our volume is way too small. So I am proposing that we standardise a design for a class(s) that would have a proper shaped foot for handling, a water pump ala the Mercury Quicksilvers, and clamp brackets,tower, that would accomadate a given transom height for the class and wouldn't lose stability or water pickup for pump at any height although to stop"out of control" setups a max height would probably be wise. Then create a "Stock" builder who could use fabricated or cast assemblies, his choice, as long as all were identical. They should all be built robust enough to handle projected HP increases and spare parts should all be readlly available. Gurrantee that the design and production would be his for the next 10 years which would hopefull keep cost reasonable altho if you could prorate the cost over 10 years and be able to get parts, it would be cheaper than having to switch. The hardest and most critical parts would be the gear sets which are tricky to make and heat treat properly altho Dennis Hanson has the Mercury specs and approval to produce "D" gears in 50 set quanties at about $450/set which is quite reasonable.
Then all that is needed is a adapter plate to fit the power head chosen to the tower and a drive shaft adapter to the crankshaft and water pipe connector and you have a "Stock" class unit which can be used to fit whatever powerhead is approved for the foreseeable future. I think one engine per class makes sense and then newcomer would have choice of buying new or used equipment. As the driver would not have that much invested in just a stock powerhead, it would be rather cheap to upgrade to next approved motor or continue to use what he has on grandfather clause for 2 years or until new motor proves faster. If the factory would not sell just a powerhead, keep the old lower unit, altenator, and other unneccesary racing parts and when done with powerhead, put back together as pleasure motor to recoup some of the expense. What do you think??? Jon Walters

[17W]

.030" 302 Over size.......

370-240=130 Hmmm...What is BU weight???

Was it 370 when I ran BU in 1965???

Coolest class at the Louisiana Winter Nationals, I thought, was BU...Fins on the bottom where they belong. Sides on their boats..Driver appeared to help increase or decrease speeds...


Why Can I bore my Yamato 302 cyclinder .030 over and I can't bore he water pick up hole .030 over???

Sorry Ron but .020" is the biggest oversize you can go......

[raceright]

plan for stock future

Nice mod you just built Jon.
Add alchol and maybe run Pro.

There are plenty of stock engines at your local outboard shop,Honda,Suzuki,Yamaha maybe even Merc. Start using them and your
Quicksilver unit will show up on future Models.Its called free enterprize system
(American Way).

Pat Wright

Region 2 Pro Comissioner


top hydro's the way to go

[hydroracer25]

There are plenty of stock engines at your local outboard shop,Honda,Suzuki,Yamaha maybe even Merc. Start using them and your
Quicksilver unit will show up on future Models.Its called free enterprize system
(American Way).

Pat Wright

Region 2 Pro Comissioner


top hydro's the way to go

Pat,

You are correct, however they are called 4-strokes and for the most part are not feasible or practical in SO racing.

Mark

[raceright]

Mark

Need Positive thoughts here,Dirt bikes have been useing 4 strokes for years
light and small(and very fast)

Pat

[kws]

you just have to THINK different with four stroke its the same deal as 302-102 only more so. With the 4 stroke, torque is king you have to USE the torque and stop thinking RPM. dont ever think how can i tickle a couple more revs out of it. you have to think how i can i tickle more SPEED out of the torque that i have. Deep down i feel those that are performing well with 302's have been doing that

[Bob Rusnak]

4 stroke

you just have to THINK different with four stroke its the same deal as 302-102 only more so. With the 4 stroke, torque is king you have to USE the torque and stop thinking RPM. dont ever think how can i tickle a couple more revs out of it. you have to think how i can i tickle more SPEED out of the torque that i have. Deep down i feel those that are performing well with 302's have been doing that

I am not a big fan of 4 stroke outboards but the trend is going that way. I have watched TQ midget and micro sprints turning those 4 strokes 10,000 rpm. Some of the go carts are turning some impressive rpm's also. Financial support would come if the new stock outboards from factories would be used. When you really come down to it, the engines you are running are far from stock. They are designed only for racing. I love the 2 stroke but look what is happening. Japan now uses the 4 stroke for there racing. Motorcross is now using the 4 stroke bikes. It is possible in the near furure that the 2 stroke will be banned in the US. Has any one looked into what the Yamoto 4 stroke racing engine will do? This is just my oponion.....Bob

[csh2z]

For those concerned about cheating, the 4 stroke is a whole new can of worms. Inspection would be a nightmare. We would have to change the way we do things to make it successful.John 2-Z

[jon66w]

Well we certainly could test out the 4 strokes a lot cheaper which we are going to be forced to go to in a few years if we adapted my idea of a universal tower and foot now. Could even convert the existing 102's,302's, to this lower unit and get rid of the cooling, height issue and probably pick up some speed with stability in the bargin!!!! We have to get over the hang up that to be stock, the whole motor has to be from the engine manufacturer. The part most of us have trouble with is the powerhead and "Shaping" metal parts. If the foot was properly shaped from our "Stock" manufacturer,It could be used in stock, mod, and pro. The powerhead would then determine what division you want to race in. If you want to race in stock, you would buy the motor approved for that class and then just have to fiddle with boat design, (not change design for water pickup) ,props, set up,and driver skill, which is what stock should be about.If you want to tinker with powerhead dimensions, stacks, altho I think that with increasing regulations, a "Quiet" Mod with internal stack is the future, and wilder setups, it is assumed that mod drivers are skilled so could handle the increased speed.If you are the ultimate speed junky, then pro is the way to go but if you had a properfoot that is robust enough for the increased HP and speed, it could be used but would be optional.The more we can make of these things, the cheaper they will be. I would then address another problem with Stock and the reason I quit back in 78. Not enough time on the water. With so many classes, some with only 3 boats, there is not time for testing, 3 heats, or two 5 lap heats. I would propose for stock that we plan to go back to the original plan of 8 classes, 2 types, hydros and runabouts altho with present scantlings and side fins it's hard to the casual observer to tell them apart. Size of engine, 15 ci,20ci,30 ci,and 40-45ci. If there is interest ,use A boats and engines,restricted or smaller jets for J.Need 5 boats to put on schedule, have some testing time, and run two 5 lap heats which is quicker than 3 heats. To avoid the "Assumption" rule, have inspector go thru pits in morning for safety check and seal engine so it can't be changed between heats. This would save inspection time later as would only have to be inspected for winners after final heat.Hopefully, we could start racing at noon and be done by 4 PM.
What does this sound like??? NASCAR!!!. Their "Car of tomorrow" is our lower unit and is standardized between all manufacturers, even Toyoto. The engines are changed for Busch or Nextel. The "Car of tomorrow" is also going to handle better and be slower to provide better racing. It's not how fast you go that determines a good race but how equally the rigs are matched which brings it down to driver skill. If you want to "Cheat" to go faster, go to Mod. Jon Walters

[ryan_4z]

There have been 4 strokes tested. There is a reason that you haven't heard about it in a while. They are heavy and underpowered for our style of racing. We have private manufacturers producing racing motors for us, I would think that it would be best to support them.