SO Yamato Rule Changes

[14-H]

**Ed - You are forgetting a very important factor. The CSR class grew not only for the reason you state but another very important factor is that a CSR rig could be used for the 25ssr class AND be competitive UNTIL last year. A person could buy a 302, run CSR and 25ssr and be competitive in both with the same boat.***

Charlie

Charlie: This is not accurate. After the 25SSR Class started to take off with the intro of the restricted 302 and particulary after the intro of the restricted 102, the CSR class numbers started to decline. This has particularly been the case in the last three years. We saw people who actually stopped competing in CSR because they wanted to run only in 25SSR. That change in 25SSR did not help CSR participation. It actually hurt it. Dean Sutherland has the stats to demonstrate this. Ed.

[14-H]

that is not the majority case Mr. Hern! ***.........

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you personally poll all of the SO members or all of those people who wanted to get into SO over the last 10 years but didn't. Or, rather, are you just counting the number of posts on Hydroracer?

I often get feedback from SO members who do not wish to be confrontational or to come to annual meetings and take tounge-lashings from those who would do anything to protect their old equipment.

And I hear stories like the one posted by Mr. Weber many, many times.

So let's hear it! How do you know where the majority lies, sir?

[14-H]

**I will say it again, the 302 is competitive and also in 20SSH being restricted. ***.

When Mark Miskerik moved into 20SSH, which engine did he buy?

When Mark Miskerik moved into CSH, which engine did he buy?

I rest my case.

[Charlie Pater]

Charlie: This is not accurate. After the 25SSR Class started to take off with the intro of the restricted 302 and particulary after the intro of the restricted 102, the CSR class numbers started to decline. This has particularly been the case in the last three years. We saw people who actually stopped competing in CSR because they wanted to run only in 25SSR. That change in 25SSR did not help CSR participation. It actually hurt it. Dean Sutherland has the stats to demonstrate this. Ed.

Hmmmm That is interesting. I wonder if people want a ride that is tamer than CSR and 25ssr with the smaller boat?

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Hey ED Wazzat!!!

Darren: 50% of the lawyers are wrong, on any given point. LOL. Ed.

And i thought it was only igorance!!!
RichardKCMo.

[mercguy]

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you personally poll all of the SO members or all of those people who wanted to get into SO over the last 10 years but didn't. Or, rather, are you just counting the number of posts on Hydroracer?

I often get feedback from SO members who do not wish to be confrontational or to come to annual meetings and take tounge-lashings from those who would do anything to protect their old equipment.

And I hear stories like the one posted by Mr. Weber many, many times.

So let's hear it! How do you know where the majority lies, sir?

your right, I am wrong AGAIN.........

[mercguy]

When Mark Miskerik moved into 20SSH, which engine did he buy?

When Mark Miskerik moved into CSH, which engine did he buy?

I rest my case.

is Mark the deciding factor in SO racing????? This is what you rest your case on? Jeez, I would not want you as my attorney (if I ever needed one) How about YOU start racing 20SSH or CSH, since you know so much about it! You keep saying your are hearing all these "so-called" problems with CSH, have you really talked to any outside your area??????


as usual, I guess the guys on the West Coast do not have a say in this matter, as apparently we are much slower than the East Coast (from what you are suggesting) , since ALOT (speaking of Reg10 right now) now run 302's........

my suggestion.........ELIMINATE BSH and BSR! What intrigues me so much is how you are so concerned about the long range plan for CSH (or even 20SSH), when it is the most thriving class in the APBA, with more options than any other classes!

PS: no wonder why most people hate lawyers......

[mercguy]

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you personally poll all of the SO members or all of those people who wanted to get into SO over the last 10 years but didn't. Or, rather, are you just counting the number of posts on Hydroracer?

I often get feedback from SO members who do not wish to be confrontational or to come to annual meetings and take tounge-lashings from those who would do anything to protect their old equipment.

And I hear stories like the one posted by Mr. Weber many, many times.

So let's hear it! How do you know where the majority lies, sir?

PS: I am not here protecting my own equipment, as it seems you are suggesting. As you obviously have read, I am selling all my "dominant 102 motors" and buying 302's..................now, does that seem like I am one sided. On the contrary, I should be all "fuzzy inside" with your suggestion of giving the 302 a "competitive" edge, since I am making the change over to them.

[mercguy]

Goehring vs. Hern................the decision is in.......

you win Ed, I am completely off base and wrong with all my statements and have no evidence or proof to support my case. I retract everything I have said and will let you continue to control our destiny............after all, you are the lawyer and i am just a lowely boat mechanic with no real knowledge of the subject matter. Do as you wish.......

sincerely,
Daren Goehring

[HRTV]

Play nice children

[mercguy]

I am now Dan........

Play nice children

sorry for the headaches. I give up, as it is a losing battle, of which I have no control over at all.............thanks....over and out.............my political career has now ended...........

[Al Peffley]

Getting Old, But Not Wiser About the Costs of Racing...

Well, I guess all of those old antique class motors (yes, those real loud, obnoxious castor "smokers"), modified hotrods, old OMC A and J stock motors, Merc "has-been" models over 20 years old, along with the old Yamato 80's (did I miss anyone's favorite pet motor they just can't divest themselves of?) should be phased out and outlawed for outboard racing in 2010 also. The top speed in many of those classes only varies by about 5-10 mph anyway, right??? So what if there were at least 15 APBA races the owners of boats in these classes could compete in during 2006, how many boats in each class (on an average) were racing in each heat -- less than five?

By 2010 I'll bet you ONLY four-cycle motors will be allowed to race on public lakes and rivers due to emerging and more strict Government regulations on gas engine emission and noise polution... Sounds like the APBA race categories will then shrink down to a reasonable number, and SO CSH owners will have to run the used 402 Yamato hand-me-downs, if they want to race on any public-controlled fresh water site! Mark my words here -- the world external to APBA is going to alter some of your best laid plans and most of your "fill-in-the-class" political moves and manipulations.

If 125ccH/R classes are growing so well (a Pro class), how come there were only five or six races for national points last year, and they were all east of the Rockies as far as I can tell? Formula AR in Mod is not a big swinger either -- wow, a whopping one event race! DSR was run at two races this year. And then you have 25SSR, where there appeared to be the opportunity to attend 15 races, but the point gatherers after 2nd place only attended no more than EIGHT TO FIVE RACES APIECE -- What's up with that class???? Then there is OSY-400 with one racer running 31 races this year -- how can anyone compete in 10 more races than everybody else (second place guy ran 20 races!)??? I am not going to knock the Marathon stock classes because they don't screw up the schedules at all of the other race sites by adding a "three-boat race for points category" to an already over-crowded race schedule.

Please look closely at the APBA national points summaries in this last issue of the Propeller and seriously think about phasing out some of the dying classes by 2010 that don't contribute much to outboard racing. Then set some realistic rule (first 13 races plus summer and winter nationals?) for class national points ac***ulation competition. Cut out the "special treatment" for long-time members who consistently violate the existing rules and are unsafe. ACTIVELY help new racers find equipment and parts, and find a way to make the daily racing schedule more predictable and disciplined for racers and spectators alike.

Who really cares about water pickups on Yamatos when there are bigger problems to solve if power boat racing is to survive as an recreational motor sport with absolutely no significant tow or purse money. Even winning Go Kart racers stick their motors because they keep running them too lean in the more competitive classes -- so what's so different about CSH owners running their engines at setup conditions where they can't keep cooling water at a reasonable flow for the water conditions? Let them waste their beer or soda money on stupid engine rebuilds!

Al Peffley
15-R/R-25

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Who new?!!!

I'm glad i'm only a spectater , and have been for quite some time, but you could tell me more.
RichardKCMo

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Wow!!!

Well, I guess all of those old antique class motors (yes, those real loud, obnoxious castor "smokers"), modified hotrods, old OMC A and J stock motors, Merc "has-been" models over 20 years old, along with the old Yamato 80's (did I miss anyone's favorite pet motor they just can't divest themselves of?) should be phased out and outlawed for outboard racing in 2010 also. The top speed in many of those classes only varies by about 5-10 mph anyway, right??? So what if there were at least 15 APBA races the owners of boats in these classes could compete in during 2006, how many boats in each class (on an average) were racing in each heat -- less than five?

By 2010 I'll bet you ONLY four-cycle motors will be allowed to race on public lakes and rivers due to emerging and more strict Government regulations on gas engine emission and noise polution... Sounds like the APBA race categories will then shrink down to a reasonable number, and SO CSH owners will have to run the used 402 Yamato hand-me-downs, if they want to race on any public-controlled fresh water site! Mark my words here -- the world external to APBA is going to alter some of your best laid plans and most of your "fill-in-the-class" political moves and manipulations.

If 125ccH/R classes are growing so well (a Pro class), how come there were only five or six races for national points last year, and they were all east of the Rockies as far as I can tell? Formula AR in Mod is not a big swinger either -- wow, a whopping one event race! DSR was run at two races this year. And then you have 25SSR, where there appeared to be the opportunity to attend 15 races, but the point gatherers after 2nd place only attended no more than EIGHT TO FIVE RACES APIECE -- What's up with that class???? Then there is OSY-400 with one racer running 31 races this year -- how can anyone compete in 10 more races than everybody else (second place guy ran 20 races!)??? I am not going to knock the Marathon stock classes because they don't screw up the schedules at all of the other race sites by adding a "three-boat race for points category" to an already over-crowded race schedule.

Please look closely at the APBA national points summaries in this last issue of the Propeller and seriously think about phasing out some of the dying classes by 2010 that don't contribute much to outboard racing. Then set some realistic rule (first 13 races plus summer and winter nationals?) for class national points ac***ulation competition. Cut out the "special treatment" for long-time members who consistently violate the existing rules and are unsafe. ACTIVELY help new racers find equipment and parts, and find a way to make the daily racing schedule more predictable and disciplined for racers and spectators alike.

Who really cares about water pickups on Yamatos when there are bigger problems to solve if power boat racing is to survive as an recreational motor sport with absolutely no significant tow or purse money. Even winning Go Kart racers stick their motors because they keep running them too lean in the more competitive classes -- so what's so different about CSH owners running their engines at setup conditions where they can't keep cooling water at a reasonable flow for the water conditions? Let them waste their beer or soda money on stupid engine rebuilds!

Al Peffley
15-R/R-25

Al, you are so right about pro,, you should come over to the mod side. There isn't a boat race within 200 miles of KCMo that isn't mod or stock?'

Al, i really don' care to talk about foreign motors as i remember when there were rules, about things like that and such, funny thing bout that .

About 5 mph seperates what is, from what is is anyways? whole nother is .


RichardKCMo

[Brian10s]

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Did you personally poll all of the SO members? How do you know where the majority lies, sir?

Did you? Did you poll all the CSH driver to see if they had any input? I have ran both the 102 & 302 in CSH, don't remember you asking me anything. Not that I know anything but that is not the point. My point is, are you basing your opinion on the information you have received from a small portion of the CSH driver who have written/ told you changes have to be made or did the masses speak out and I'm just the last to know about it?

And you still have not answered me that if all new engines must be the dominant engine, why the parity committee's? Why isn't there a push to make the 302 the dominant engine in 20? The Merc in A? The Tohatsu in D? Why not just do it acros the board and be done with it. Just quit playing both sides of the fence. Either the new engines are dominant or we keep playing with parity in all classes. But quit talking about both depending on the direction of the wind. The SORC needs to make a decission on the policy of new engines and then stick to it no matter what. If the Tohatsu is blowing the doors off the Merc and all the Merc guys quit, tough. If the 302 smokes the 80 and all the 80 guys go off to run BMH, too bad.

Make the ruling and go with it. Yes, you will lose some people, others will stay and others will run out and buy the new motor. But at least everybody knows the plan. Because right now, there is no plan. All new guys in 20 & C should be buying 302 because in 5-10 years, when their driving skills are ready to compete on a national level, the 302's will also be there on a national level. They already are on 99% of our courses. And once those 302 guys get their programs good enough that they can focus on nationals props, they will dial those in as well.

Step up and swing the big stick. What's the worse that can happen, it get reversed next year?