SO Yamato Rule Changes

[DougMc]

of why we are in this situation to begin with. How many times have I heard "just put it to a vote for the drivers of the class to decide". The drivers of the class will only vote based on "what is best for me". We can't seem to face the fact that what may be best for the future of the sport may NOT BE what is best for me. If we take an honest look at what is most important to the future of the sport, we the current membership, are NOT at the top of the list. I'm curious, If I were the dictator of the C Stock Hydro class, the 102 would no longer be a legal motor begining in 2010. Tell me what would YOU do if this were to occur. I don't want to know what you think will happen overall(don't speak for others). Will you buy a 302 ASAP, or quit racing, or change classes? John 2-Z

For your count, I would not quit I would just buy a 302, a new prop and modify my boat transom.

Doug, 50-F

[race4kaos]

Ed,

Talked to Gary Miller last year. He is a wise man. Only thing I ever questioned about him is why he brought some stock punk to the Mod Nationals in Mt. Home in '88. His plan was sound.
I also remember fights at the hotel that year over which one of us was going to get to throw the stocker off the 2nd story balcony 'towards' the pool.
Guess it was a draw, since you're still here today.

[DougMc]

No. SO's CSH rules have no bearing on what PRO does with their OSY class.

I'm guessing PRO see's no problem with the current condition of OSY. They even allow the faster 202.
(It's just the SO Chairman that doesn't seem to want to leave it alone.)

CSH and 20SSH technical rules have significant impact on OSY technical rules. This should be taken into account in decision making.

According to the Pro OSY inspection manual, with a few written technical differences, OSY follows the Stock inspection manual. So, if the 302 is allowed a water pick up in CSH it may by default be allowed in OSY. As for the 202 in OSY, it follows the technical inspection rules for the 302 as written in the Stock Inspection manual for the most part.

So, if you allow the water pick up for the 302 in CSH, you can bet 302 and 202 will be trying the water pick ups in OSY to see if an advantage is gained by jacking up as high as possible since there is no height rule in OSY.

[race4kaos]

Doug,

I want to say WHO CARES ABOUT OSY !?! But I know different people have different thoughts. But the SO commission should certainly not be concerned about it.

That said, the details on how the water pick-up rules would be proposed are not known, nor if they even will be. My guess was that there would be no permanent engine modification for this stock class. Not moving or alterring the intake hole at all. Simply bypass the pick-up. Feed water from an external pick-up to the motor at the existing flange or even backwards through the motor. Who cares - it's water.

With all due respect though, OSY is not the concern. (Of course if you jack a 302 up, hell, above the bottom, run a 4-blade, and can still get water it would be an advantage. Duh.) The Pro category would actually have to react. That's not what this discussion is about...

I hope it's not even a discussion as the rules should remain as is. SO stands for Stock Outboard... PRO stands for something else, but it's not Perfectly Replicate [stock] Outboard. I assume they have their own capable people.

[mercguy]

stock not mod!

Darren: The Tohatsu would still be legal in the D Mod and FE classes. I didn't forget them.

BTW: As for your responses, you have the second greatest number on this board behind only ADMIN last time I checked. I'm quite sure you're last sentence is not true. Ed.

I was done with the Yamato issue with YOU. Now, another has arisen..............what in your "so mighty brain" is now trying to convince you of eliminating the STOCK Tohatsu (and DSH) and putting it into mod category (the category you have no bearing on). Maybe you should just write the check to Bass Machines to recover all the money they have and are investing in the STOCK Tohatsu DSH project. Come on Ed, you are a lawyer, you gotta be loaded!

this is not a "personal" issue with me, but rather thinking of what the so many others will be forced to do. You screw up the CSH and DSH classes, no problem, "I" will just move over to the mod category, which will force lots of others to do also.

and yes, it seems I am the #2 poster here, but WILL NOT lay down and let detrimental things happen, of which I can have a small say in.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

just like nascar.

I have a 17 year OLD who has been playing water polo for seven years...(7 DAYS A WEEK)...He took this year off, but it appears he may be playing again for four years...

My son has raced kneeldowns twice, this year, because he really wants to RACE 45 in the Western Formula Lights Series, he has raced 45, but I wanted him to have some time in a kneeler under racing conditions......but I have some real questions about my "DECISIONS " as coach...

Well, he's raced kneeldowner twice and been in the water twice.....

He raced 45, fifty three laps and actually beat one or two guys...but he didn't get in the water...

By "getting in the water", I mean, in C Runabout he fell out of the boat... (Went Ass over Tea Kettle) I say fell, because the wheel and throttle were still in the boat, so he didn't get "THROWN OUT". And at Parker, he ran Dawe's number two "A" boat, and managed to turn it over on the second day...

If you go to... www.davidnoelphotography.com check out Angie Rea in C Hydro..... Bottom Line, EVERYONE is going too fast.....

I (Tammy dawe and Jeff Connant, di the work....) pointed this 16 year old girl to an AXS at Parker, she did a fine job of driving...actually... She is capsule trained and 45 is where she'll race.....

The skill needed to drive a kneeldown is way, way off the Bell Curve...Just TOO HARD......for most people.....Where does the new guy go?? A 56 MPH "A" Hydro???? A 60 MPH "C" Runabout??? A 64 MPH 20, that burnes up about every other race???

For a Yamato, Darren, says he can buy a new 302. Why not run this new 302, un-cut foot, just like it was designed....and see how fast it goes at 1" below the bottom.....Then, lower the transom heights, on cut foot 302, to go the same speed and they'd get water....as I'm guessing they'd need to be about 1 1/4 below the bottom...and then do the same with the 102.....

With "HILL RULES" a man could buy a new motor and go race....he wouldn't have to send his foot somewhere and powerhead somewhere and then still get beat by a 102.....



ADD: I'll bet Ernie Dawe has spent more money on his 20 SS Yamato Motor this year...Than Steven Dawe has spent on his 45 since he started racing 45.....Every rebuilt for Dawe's 80, this year was because lack of water...Lake full of water and with 50 years experience he's burned up ????motors....

Lower the transom heights... Slow the boats down!!!!


Oh well, things go along like this for awhile, then they get worse!!!!

I 've watched a lot of races in 65 yrs i think Ron's right , nascar slows cars down quite regularly no matter what drivers say and they don't have a shortage of drivers, owners.
Rick Hendrick of nascar fame started in drag boats, set records for 3 yrs. in tff and jet. I wonder why he switched to cars?
RichardKCMo

[f8andbethere]

Take the blinders off

again, you cannot copare our sport to something like motorcycle racing. A guy can go buy a NEW motorcycle, race it or whatever and still can go just about anywhere to ride it, be it the mountains, desert, track, etc. So, that gives the manufacturers a bigger "window" for sales. Our level of boat racing is completely different. You can't go run your race boat on any water way you like and the ones you can, most have speed limits and the others are way too rough for our boats to go in. This is probably why there are no mass produced race boat motors for us (yet), cause it just ain't profitable for the manufacturers. While I understand your concern and statements, you pretty much cannot compare our sport to another type of motorsport............

Before you go yapping about what I can compare to and what I can't compare to, I would suggest that you take apeak at the competition. The fact is that motorcyclists are restricted to where they can and can not ride their scooters. Perhaps they have more space than boat racers but you really don't understand why folks are not coming in droves to the stock outboard division. If we are so hot, why don't we have the numbers? One of the reasons is that most folks would prefer not to buy hand-me-downs -- they want new equipment.

First and foremost, a racer just would not wear out a racing machine for pleasure. Even if you could put your 102 lump on a pleasure boat would you really do that? Would you really put that blue printed motor on a 15 foot rowboat and take it for a pleasureboat ride. Would you really risk wearing out a racing engine to go for a pleasure ride? I dont think so and neither would a motorcycle racer.

The reason there is no mass produced boats is that it is not profitable because there are no motors for the boats. Wake up. There is absolutely no incentive.

You are stuck in the middle of the northwest in a relatively cloistered area. Go to a motorcycle race (amatuer), go to a go-kart race, go see a car race -- an amatuer one -- go to Yakima if you have to -- see what the rest of the world is doing. Then maybe we can talk.

[14-H]

**
Guess it was a draw, since you're still here today.

Kevin: If you remember, I made it to the pool. But I did manage to drag Eric VanOver in with me. That was 18 years ago. Can you believe it?

[14-H]

***

and yes, it seems I am the #2 poster here, but WILL NOT lay down and let detrimental things happen, of which I can have a small say in.

This is exactly why my proposal will never work. Calm down Darren. It's only a pipe dream. Ed.

[14-H]

Talked to Gary Miller last year. ***.

Kevin: I called Gary after returning from the Nationals to tell him that his old B Mod Runabout had finally won the nationals. It was new in 1986, so I told him that, just like the case with him, the boat needed to be really old before it got good.

I don't know if you remember this but that is the same boat that Gary speared Bob Laws at Huntington with, back when Bob had just bought his new Broccoli. Bobby remembers as he was really pissed about it until Gary came down and, true to form, signed Bobby's boat with a black magic marker. Ed.

BTW: it is the boat shown above.

[mercguy]

????????

Before you go yapping about what I can compare to and what I can't compare to, I would suggest that you take apeak at the competition. The fact is that motorcyclists are restricted to where they can and can not ride their scooters. Perhaps they have more space than boat racers but you really don't understand why folks are not coming in droves to the stock outboard division. If we are so hot, why don't we have the numbers? One of the reasons is that most folks would prefer not to buy hand-me-downs -- they want new equipment.

First and foremost, a racer just would not wear out a racing machine for pleasure. Even if you could put your 102 lump on a pleasure boat would you really do that? Would you really put that blue printed motor on a 15 foot rowboat and take it for a pleasureboat ride. Would you really risk wearing out a racing engine to go for a pleasure ride? I dont think so and neither would a motorcycle racer.

The reason there is no mass produced boats is that it is not profitable because there are no motors for the boats. Wake up. There is absolutely no incentive.

You are stuck in the middle of the northwest in a relatively cloistered area. Go to a motorcycle race (amatuer), go to a go-kart race, go see a car race -- an amatuer one -- go to Yakima if you have to -- see what the rest of the world is doing. Then maybe we can talk.

have you actually been to a boat race nowadays? The general population CANNOT afford to buy new equipment. The reason we do get newcomers is because they can "get in" relatively cheap and buy USED equipment. And before you think you know where I have been and what I have been to, rethink that. I have been to ALL forms of sports racing (go-carts, motorcyles, drag races, NASCAR and BUSCH and all other closed wheel racing, open wheel racing, etc) and no exactly what goes on and is entailed. That is why I said you cannot compare our sport with the rest of the general sporting population. Since you do not know me from beans, I will let you know I have been all over the west coast, where there is just about every type of motorsport happening. Here is what it would cost for a newby to buy a new CSH rig:

boat: $2500-$3500
hardware: $500
motor: $2500 (new 302 is $2200+ tax and shipping)
cart: $225
props (3): $975
trailer $3000 (for a single axle enclosed trailer)
safety gear: $1000 (all new SRP gear with SHOEI helmet) actually probably more, but the best investment!
misc other needed equipment: $500

total: $10,000+

..........how many newcomers can afford that.......probably 2%!

[mercguy]

This is exactly why my proposal will never work. Calm down Darren. It's only a pipe dream. Ed.

why, because I am trying to stand up for fellow racers? Since you are our "leader" I guess you make the decisions................I am just a babbling "wannabee" boatracer and know nothing...........

[MGallagher]

Prices:

boat: $2000 nearly new
hardware: already in nearly new boat you bought for $2000
motor: $2000 new(used in Japan and maybe Europe) ready to race
cart: carry your boat!
props: 1 prop (go testing with prop maker)
trailer: top of car/back of truck
safety gear: $750 new/ $500 good used
misc.other needed epuipement: if you are interested in racing boats and don't have wrenches, sockets and screwdrivers you are probably from Rumson and have a great uncle that does everything for you(hahaha!!!)

Total: About $5000

Matt Gallagher
58J

P.S. I might charge $5000 to get all that stuff to the left coast!!

[mercguy]

Prices:

boat: $2000 nearly new
hardware: already in nearly new boat you bought for $2000
motor: $2000 new(used in Japan and maybe Europe) ready to race
cart: carry your boat!
props: 1 prop (go testing with prop maker)
trailer: top of car/back of truck
safety gear: $750 new/ $500 good used
misc.other needed epuipement: if you are interested in racing boats and don't have wrenches, sockets and screwdrivers you are probably from Rumson and have a great uncle that does everything for you(hahaha!!!)

Total: About $5000

Matt Gallagher
58J

P.S. I might charge $5000 to get all that stuff to the left coast!!

hey Matt, I was just listing the prices for ALL NEW stuff for a comparison. Carry the boat.............uh, not sure your pit crew or friends would appreciate that anymore......LOL! But, you did list some $$ saving ideas.....

PS: I think the best deal you could get on a new boat would be from Ernie Dawe or Frank Zorkan, both around $1500 with 2 coats of sealer, but ya got some sanding to do....... , the rest of the manufacturers range from $2000-$5000, but most around $2500-$3000 for a CSH type boat.

[mercguy]

new DSH complete rig price..........

boat: $2800-$3500
motor: $5600 Tohatsu (might be a little more now for 2007)
props: $650 (2) (one way or another you are going to have to buy 2 props)
cart: $250
hardware: $550
paint, etc: $500

total for new DSH.........$10,350-$11,050

now, how many newcomers (or even current members) could afford that?? My point is that I do not think most newcomers are after ALL NEW EQUIPMENT, as most are really not sure about how they will like it or not, so are not going to spend the big $$$ on equipment, but rather they would buy USED stuff, so the new thing is not what is causing the "newcomers" to stray away.......

SORRY, this is WAY off topic, but wanted to provide the info...........