Stock Outboard Questionaire

[Islandmon]

Well said, new guy or not you get it . Thanks for your input.

Sam,

[daveracerdsh]

Future

Like Mr Brewster says.....this is all just theory at this point. I would be at some point in the future the EPA is going to ban the use of ANY 2 stroke outboard motors in the United States....both racing and for pleasure boat use. I sure hope Yamato keeps up with working on 4 cycle race motors.....Dave

[daveracerdsh]

A few more thoughts

If it were up to me...it would be pretty simple. Work with the major Outboard motor makers in the US and abroad to use stock powerheads (4cycle) and mate them to existing towers, like Sid Bass makes for the Tohatsu and other classes...get the big boys interested in racing again, just like the were from the 50's to the early 90's. As soon as the Mercury Challenge series went away we have been in a gradual decline...

[mercguy]

Like Mr Brewster says.....this is all just theory at this point. I would be at some point in the future the EPA is going to ban the use of ANY 2 stroke outboard motors in the United States....both racing and for pleasure boat use. I sure hope Yamato keeps up with working on 4 cycle race motors.....Dave

Yamato has STOPPED developement of the 4 stroke motor for now...... http://www.yamatoracing.co.uk/#

while the boating trend is to switch over to 4 strokes, when you do that in our little racing world, it will create a BUTTLOAD (term from our Commodore) of issues and is not what we want.......

[daveracerdsh]

4 stroke

I am not saying you are wrong....but at some point in time the EPA is going to step in and stop all use of 2 stroke motors in the United States...whether it be motorcycles, weedeaters, or racing outboards. The handwriting is on the wall. Not a good thing, but it will happen. Just look at what's going on in California. Dave

[G Stillwill]

We are only a drop in the bucket to the EPA and with the new motors you have to sign a form that it will only be used for racing. No one is going to get involved in making two stroke motors especially if they read all the resistance to bring them in. I know if I had money the very last place I would invest it would be in an outboard racing motor. The only reason we have the Yamato is Japan found a good dumping ground for there used motors not rebuilt but used. Not taking anything away from that but its still a used motor that has to have things done to it. When I decided to give up the Mercs and the AX class and go to A I bought Sidewinders because I didnt want to build ten 30 yrs old OMC's to find a good one. They are real race motors dont have to be blueprinted as its all been done. I had mine apart and there is nothing inside that I could do to make it any faster. Sure they have had teething problems but this isnt a million dollar outfit with an R&D group just standing around fixing problems. The J division took the Merc and made that the motor for the class but you still could run the old motors and the J classes took off and grow every year.

[Affholter66]

"stock Classic"

Perhaps add those 302's to the "stock classic" division.

Ok..so now in addition to what our club runs (or will...) you've ADDED how many classes via "stock classic"?? Not enough daylight...

[Affholter66]

25ssr

Hmm a 302 a 102 and a 25XS Merc..all on the water together...I'm not seeing anything wrong with this picture?? Could just be me though...

[Jack Stotts]

I believe that having different motors within in a class promotes spectator interest. Now if we had some spectators, possibly we could game it the way NASCAR does in "running" Fords, Toyotas, and etc in their races. People like to see competition among brands. Think about how many times you have heard folks discussing the Toyota record against other brands on the course and it is all a marketing tool. Why not exploit it? Nothing lost. Jack

[Dave M]

Not Supposed To But here it is

I know you wanted only stock people to comment, but I felt compelled. I feel eliminating down to one engine per class is a mistake. A big mistake. A perfect exaomple if the picture Affholter posted. Look at it close.... do you see the marketing opportunity there ? Japan could give a rats butt if we promote the yamato. Here you have a Mercury (any American can idientify with a Merc cowling on a boat) competing against some foreign looking thing. Who do you think the average spectator that is just there to watch is going to root for ? It creates excitment, it creates a racing atmosphere, and this attracts money. Without that, you have what you have had the last 20 years. No money to promote, and definately no money to give back to the racers. You guys need to need to stop and realize you don't race for yourselves, you need to start racing for everyone except that. No amount of websites, or driver schools is going to change that. You first need to have a product that is attractive, and markets itself to an extent. Your different classes need to be different classes. Same boat and same motors all day will most likely drive money away, not bring it on board.

Maybe someone needs to go pitch to a major sponsor and hear it from them before it will sink in ?

[wagner-racing16-s]

Instead of making the 302Super STock Hydro class make that the standard CSH. Since the motor is bone stock out of the box. Take the 302ssh class and make that the C Super Stock Hydro class were the 102's and 302's can still compete against each other. This will help with all the people who have blueprinted their 102's and 302's so they have a place to race. the standard CSH class with then be what it is suppose to be, an out of the box class where it is illegal to modify the boat at all. Super Stock to me sounds like a beefed up stock motor.

[Bunker hill]

$.02

Unfortunately, the indecisions of the past, are biting back. We need a plan, a decision. In this case, there is a proposal. and when a decision is made, and a decision must be made, that decision will alienate people or classes, regardless of the outcome of the decision. As with any true dilemma, there are multiple opinions, each one feels that their opinion is the "Right" opinion. This is why we have an elected commission to represent the general racing community.
I am not a supporter of the Sidewinder for a multitude of reasons, and this forum is not about my feelings there. This forum is about the future of stock outboarding. We must have a viable plan, utilizing stock, mass produced engines. I DO NOT believe that we, stock outboard category, are to be a test bed for R& D. The only participants capable of successfully conducting R&D are those whom have been around for generations, not new participants. In order to sell a "Newbie" on a sidewinder, we first have to seel him on what is is and what in means. Back in the "Hey Day" of personal watercraft, I was a National Representative of a small, independent watercraft manufacturer, Nationally, we sold 8 units in 2 years and we had far better resources and MORE MONEY than sidewinder, the company went broke and lost $10 million in 3 years. Why? because there wasn't name brand recognition and then as NOW, they din't not have suitable resources to conduct the necessary R&D to produce a competitive and marketable product. Large corporations do have these resources and therefor, I believe we need to stay with them.
One of the problems that I see with the Yamatos is the name recognition aspect. We can sell past this with the whole story of Japanese racing. But beyond that, we need a recognizable product, known to the general public which means OMC, Mercury, Tohatsu or any other mainstream manufacturer. The thought that "My "New Race Motor" can't even be serviced by my local outboard shop?" Is enough to send a Newbe running, and it has.
I believe we need to stick with the mass-production STOCK engines, and yes, the Mercury is a "Junior motor" it is available and any spectator will recognize what is is and will know that it isn't going away! that is what I believe we don't appriciate, and oh yeah, they were designed to run all day in all weather and they do, just like the 30 year old OMC.

Just my $.02

Bunker

[krazy karl]

I believe that having different motors within in a class promotes spectator interest. Now if we had some spectators, possibly we could game it the way NASCAR does in "running" Fords, Toyotas, and etc in their races. People like to see competition among brands. Think about how many times you have heard folks discussing the Toyota record against other brands on the course and it is all a marketing tool. Why not exploit it? Nothing lost. Jack

NASCAR has gone so far as to making all the brands run pretty much the same stuff that brand identity is starting to fade away and so is attendance and TV numbers. They are starting to open things up again to get that brand recognition and support back. Chrysler cut way back on support because they felt they were not getting their money's worth back in the show room and are putting their support into drag racing, rallying and even drifting. There will not be a Dodge in the field next year even though a Dodge took the top spot this year. Being a die hard Mopar fan I will probably not even watch a race next year except to see if Penske falls on his face in the Fords.

I think we need to keep diversity in our classes if we can and it sure would be nice if we could find a way to get the manufacturers back in it somehow. The spectators are the source of new drivers and spectators aren't going to come to a race to watch a bunch of Yamato's run around. They can identify with the OMC's though.

As far as the OMC's go, we have a slew of them in Region 11 and I think to relegate them to the classic division would force a lot of these drivers out of the sport. I know I can't afford to buy a Sidewinder now and don't know that I would want to race in Classic, as much as I love old Mercs and stuff, it has a second string ring to it. Let the OMC's die out on their own. There will then be used Sidewinder stuff coming along for newbies and financially limited drivers to acquire.
kk

[krazy karl]

Mike made a comment about buying some spots on ESPN etc for a promo. There is a channel on the Dish Network called Velocity, it is channel 364. It is mainly a gear head channel but their lineup is pretty stale with a lot of repeats and fill in stuff. If we were to record some of our races with some of our good announcers doing commentary, we could probably get some of these on that channel for some exposure. It would seem to me they would be happy to have it and someday if it caught on could be a source of revenue. Maybe pie in the sky but a thought.
kk

[bill boyes]

You seen to forget that there is a place for the OMC other than Classic. It in Mod called Formula A or what 200cc.
Change is very painful but it must be done.
The SORC has too many times wanted a new motor got one then rejected it.