If I Were King I'd....

[Matt Dagostino]

Yea right.................

Another 2 ½ days of tech talk and rule changes. Oh, don’t forget the 45 minutes allotted to promoting the sport.

Troy
I figure you will be texting your wife half the time and sleeping through the rest of the meetings!! Wonder if it's to late to demand a recount and send Worm out in your place. At least he would buy the Captain a cocktail after a long day of saving APBA meetings!

Respectfully Submitted
Team Mel

[14J]

Troy
I figure you will be texting your wife half the time and sleeping through the rest of the meetings!! Wonder if it's to late to demand a recount and send Worm out in your place. At least he would buy the Captain a cocktail after a long day of saving APBA meetings!

Respectfully Submitted
Team Mel

Glad to see you're awake. Don't take my comments to lightly. In MY opinion the time and energy spent as a commissioning body should shift. A little less cc’s and more on sustainable member growth.

[krazy karl]

No Show?

I have read every post on this thread, and one fact I notice is this: the members with the most/longest posts are the members with the LEAST amount of actual laps on the race course every season... Just an observation... GL

Yes it is true that I only raced 4 races in CSR this year but there is a good reason, which is exactly what we are talking about here. We only had three boats show up for CSR on two weekends this year in region 11. The rest of the season we could not get 3 boats to run the class so I ran CMR(500cc) the rest of the season. In 2009 we had at least 6 or 7 every race and had 9 one weekend with some of our friends from region 10 coming down. Even then we only had 5 boats in CMR for most of the season.

We lost money on at least 2 weekends that I know of for sure, maybe more and cancelled one due to lack of pre-entries. We had a hard time running some flights for lack of volunteers because almost everyone was running a class in the flight. We had guys and gals jumping out of race gear into patrol boats and back.

Why? We were told by missing drivers that it was the economy, they couldn't afford it. I am sure this was a contributing factor but it isn't the whole story as discussed already by many.

I really agree with Kyle that purpose built centrally located course near a population base in every region is one very good answer. We have one course in our region where we can hold a race almost anytime we want, do not have to go through a bunch of red tape etc, and can test there almost at will. The main problem it is out in the middle of nowhere. I don't mind the 5 hour drive but we have virtually no spectators for this reason nor amenities for them if they were to show up. We are going to have to be able to bring in sponsors and paying spectators to grow this sport and with the venues we have now it isn't going to happen. Thus my comments of building the family aspect our sport.

I used to help at our local dirt track and helped grow that sport here in Quincy. We started mainly with 6 or 7 street stocks the first year and the racing was pretty pitiful at first to say the least but we built it up to about 20 local cars on a half mile track. The main reason was that it was fun and the cost reasonable. Word got around that we had the fastest track in No Calif and we started bringing in outside cars from all over as well and it became a major Saturday night event. I then got into boat racing and left. But then everyone wanted to get bigger and faster so the street stock kind of started fading away when racers jumped into modifieds. Guess what? The big guys started spending big bucks and started taking home all the marbles and in the meantime the street stock class had been completely done away with. They did create a dwarf class for the kids who were graduating from karts or wanted to get into a real car. (Norcal?). Now there are only about 6 or 7 modifieds and the crowds have dwindled as well and they are having a hard time paying the bills again. Sound familiar? A big announcement was made a month ago that the street stock class is going to be resurrected with stock manifolds, carbs etc. All my buddies who had dropped out are excited again and are looking for cars to build.

We need to do the same. I raced in Mod with my stock Yamato because I want to keep it stock for the occasional marathon (Top'O one time at least I hope) and CSR if we can build it back up. I raced both classes in 2009 but was off the pace in Mod so I spent some bucks last winter freshening it up and modifying a spare foot to hopefully keep up this year. So did everyone else with pipes and stuff so I was still off the pace a bit but was able to get into the hunt by the end of the season. I am not going to jump on the ever spiraling upward trend of spending more money again this winter to make my motor faster and less reliable to be competitive next year because everyone else will. But if I still have to manage to keep everyone in front of me again next year I am going to start getting pretty discouraged when the main chance of finishing well is hoping the Merc will blow up and somebody else will get flipped out(humor!). I am trying to interest some of our drivers to go back to CSR, like my stock car buddies, so I can race competitively at a reasonable cost. I'll get off the soap box and give someone else a turn.
kk 90C & 88C

[Ron Hill]

45 Minutes Is Too Long

Another 2 ½ days of tech talk and rule changes. Oh, don’t forget the 45 minutes allotted to promoting the sport.

I've been at a few boat shows in my life, and it is hard to sell when you have nothing to sell.

In 1976, Tom Ige and I made a list of 14-15 used hydros and started Novice Hydro, we sold packages at the L.A. Boat Show and the Speed and Sport Show..We got new members with OUR rules......Main rule BRASS prop....

This class is now called OSY 400......No weights, no prop restrictions.....

Can you tell what happened to Tommy and my class after the COMMISSION "Fixed" it...????

The other thing that happened was THE "REAL" RACERS WANTED TO KNOW HOW LONG WERE THESE GUYS GOING TO BE NOVICE RACERS???? My answer was they'd be Novice drivers as long as they had a ****ING BRASS PROP....But what did I know about getting new driver's in the sport? We only had about 25 new members that year...A Yamato 80 sold for $312 dealer.....including California taxes. I sold more than 22 between 1976-77..

Bottom Line: Today 2011, we have nothing to promote!!!!! You come in buy an old junk boat, old motor, you go out run last....buy a new 302...burn it up because no one told you they were an inch shorter...Then you flip over...and you quit, broke and pissed off...

Any race boat should be sold with a warning label: Warning, don't try to win until you have raced for five years!

WE WANT NEW PEOPLE IN THE SPORT, TO BEAT.

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

"Any race boat should be sold with a warning label: Warning, don't try to win until you have raced for five years!"

From what I have seen they usually quit at three years... When they realize the boat they have is to heavy, they are to heavy, they only have two props and they are not the pros they need, and they need more money in motor work than the paid for it in the first place.
And if they do all that in region 10 they will still need to beat, John, Kyle, Kyle, Mike, Jonathan, Jamie or Bob to even hope to get a fourth place finish.
No one likes loosing every time!

We need a beginner/ rookie/ novice Yamato Hydro class!!!


As a side note; At last years local motocross races we had 4 guys in Masters (50+) this year we have 12. How might this information be used to benefit boat racing?.

P.S. Three more guys and we will have a B main and more winners (not eliminations).

[blueskyracer]

Back when we use to race R/C unlimiteds we would get down to the first and second consolation and the final. The top six for the race weekend ran in the final and the next highest six ran in a first consulation and the the last six ran in the second consulation. That way you basically had three winners for the weekend. Folks felt a lot better about getting to run in a final, even if it was not for the overall win. Points in the consulations were cut in half.

Of course this will not work till you get rid of the non productive classes that are just taking up time to run with the 2 or 3 boats.

[Ron Hill]

Over 50 Class....

"Any race boat should be sold with a warning label: Warning, don't try to win until you have raced for five years!"

From what I have seen they usually quit at three years... When they realize the boat they have is to heavy, they are to heavy, they only have two props and they are not the pros they need, and they need more money in motor work than the paid for it in the first place.
And if they do all that in region 10 they will still need to beat, John, Kyle, Kyle, Mike, Jonathan, Jamie or Bob to even hope to get a fourth place finish.
No one likes loosing every time!

We need a beginner/ rookie/ novice Yamato Hydro class!!!


As a side note; At last years local motocross races we had 4 guys in Masters (50+) this year we have 12. How might this information be used to benefit boat racing?.

P.S. Three more guys and we will have a B main and more winners (not eliminations).

When Chad was racing BMX and Jessica had to compete with the boys, I was 41...I had a GT Cruiser, as the GT guy had a flat bottom and needed props, so I had many BMX bikes....I talked the ABA into a fourty and over class of cruisers....I still couldn't keep up with Chad or Jessica and got serious head aches...Now, they have a 50 and over class...No, I sold my cruiser...good bike though!

Jessica quit the year before they had a girl's age classes, as she got tired of the boys dumping her as she passed...

Only losers continue to do something when they know they'll lose!

ADD;

In swimming and water polo they have NAGS....Once a year...A NATIONAL AGE GROUPS event...Imagine 16 year olds racing 16 year olds and 70 year olds racing 70 years...Oh, wait,,, 70 year old run Sport C...and I'm building one for me as I will be 70, maybe, in three years!

Ric Montoya has 50 plus 302's at $2000 each, IN STOCK, , if someone could INSPECT, they could be kept legal for a NOVICE class. Probably never work, need to spend $2,000 on your $2,000 Yamato so you can WIN....(Two days on CC's, 45 minutes on promotion)....Let's argue overlap while we're at it!.....

LAST ADD:

Could you see it?? The week after DePue, Pro Nationals...APBA NAGS for Stock Outbord TWO Cylinder classes sponsored by Qatar and APBA! NOT!

[Ron Hill]

Never Look At What Them BUM*****ES Are Doing!!!

As a side note; At last years local motocross races we had 4 guys in Masters (50+) this year we have 12. How might this information be used to benefit boat racing?.


Are you kidding?? They might want to copy us!!!!

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

Thanks for the support Ron, I have a few ideas on how this could be implemented. From minor and EZ to sweeping and good for all. if any one is interested.

Just to add more food for thought, They now race mountain bikes at BMX races, Nostalgia is the fastest growing class in NHRA, AHRMA Vintage Motocross is now a monster drawing several hundred entry's for a single weekend event in Chehalis Washington. And from what I can see Vintage is the only class in boat racing that is growing.

What is in-common with all this racing going on right now ? Demographics! It's all the same guys

1974 was the number one year for motorcycle sales for years, until, 2002 and the 100th anniversary for Harley Davidson. It was the same guys that got there first bike in 1974.

Find those old boat racing photos from the 60s-70s and compare them to a photo from today, same guys. plus a few pounds.

In 16 seasons I can't recall ever seeing a 20 sonething guy getting into this on his own.

See the posts on this thread by mdaspit to the history leading to this.

Like it or not that is a reality of racing today.

So embrace these realities and structure our classes and rules with an eye towards sportsman and club racing rather than records and national championships so that everyone who loves boat racing will have a place to race.

[PopPop]

The future

"so embrace these realities and structure our classes and rules with an eye towards sportsman and club racing rather than records and national championships so that everyone who loves boat racing will have a place to race".

great idea !!!!!!

[Dave M]

Real Change

Purchase a bunch of big screen TV's, get some computer geek to write a game up and then we all race with a joystick in our hands. Minimum investment and heck with networking now we don't even have to leave our couch for a weekend full of racing.

Seriously though, given the structure APBA has in place, and the inability to control costs it has, there is a serious problem. Now is the time to take action, and not sit here behind some keyboards jabbering.

My Gosh, did you know they even have a sponsored and televised event called barstool racing ? Talk about missing the boat..... I think the ship sailed about 10 years ago.

At the very least this next meeting should bring about a big change in number of classes offered each weekend. If you can't do that, there is little hope. If you stop and look at each successful series offered they one thing in common. Very few classes. Most offer only a couple maybe three.

I don't know the right answers, but I can tell you the wrong ones.... do nothing.

[Matt Dagostino]

Ka-Ching................

..A Yamato 80 sold for $312 dealer.....including California taxes. I sold more than 22 between 1976-77..

To me money and affordability is still the key to at least maintaining 'par' in our sport..........money is the fuel that controls everything we do in life!!

The same Yamato 80/102 engine that sold for peanuts back in the day is/was the lifeblood of our sport!! Today a basic BRAND NEW race engine in Stock Ourboard runs between $3900-6500 (Merc 15 and Tahatsu and Sidewinders).

REAL wages have not kept up with todays reality of equipment costs. Not to mention fuel and travel expenses!!

Don't really know where i am going with this but i thought Ron Hill's post is very revealing.

[forshey99]

To me money and affordability is still the key to at least maintaining 'par' in our sport..........money is the fuel that controls everything we do in life!!

The same Yamato 80/102 engine that sold for peanuts back in the day is/was the lifeblood of our sport!! Today a basic BRAND NEW race engine in Stock Ourboard runs between $3900-6500 (Merc 15 and Tahatsu and Sidewinders).

REAL wages have not kept up with todays reality of equipment costs. Not to mention fuel and travel expenses!!

Don't really know where i am going with this but i thought Ron Hill's post is very revealing.

I gave up on this whole thing long ago, but I couldn't resist adding to Ron's/Matt's post on cost. That same Y80 Ron sold 30 years ago will be posted on this forum for $1000+.
Laughable..........It costs 3X more to buy the same motor today. Not a new"er" one. The SAME EXACT ONE, still un-blueprinted, ran hard and put away wet.

[B Walker]

I gave up on this whole thing long ago, but I couldn't resist adding to Ron's/Matt's post on cost. That same Y80 Ron sold 30 years ago will be posted on this forum for $1000+.
Laughable..........It costs 3X more to buy the same motor today. Not a new"er" one. The SAME EXACT ONE, still un-blueprinted, ran hard and put away wet.

312 dollars in 1976 is worth just under 1200 dollars in todays money due to inflation.

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

I have seen plenty of 80's sold for under 1200 on HR so a case could be made that the cost of entry level racing is actually lower today as a y-80 bought today for around 1200 is likely blueprinted, foot is templated, and kill switch is wired.

The least expensive motor currently available new or reconditioned that is legal in the Stock Outboard Division is the Y-302 at around 2200.

In 1976 dollars that would have been 573 dollars. Not bad.

BW

[Haüenstein]

312 dollars in 1976 is worth just under 1200 dollars in todays money due to inflation.

Similarly, a $34 APBA membership in 1963 would cost $243.01 in today's money (source: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl).

On another note, I think the "B Main" heat concept is pretty cool and would like to think we can work with that. Something that would work for races that don't have elims, but have a good field.