Stock "Classics" at Top O in 2013?

[DtwSailor]

I saw on facebook, then it was removed that Stock Classics will not be running at Top O this year? Can anyone confirm, deny or support this?
Bummer as I have 3 classic entries already lined up, and have a feeling I could get at least 2 more, making 5.

[Hal 212M]

I heard they weren't going to run the classics too. My Dad is ready to go if they change their mind.

[raceboat61-S]

I have 2 entries, Mark 20H and KG-4, too. I am disappointed because I am a TOMORC member, no club members even communicated this to me and I have supported them and the Top'O Classic race for each of the last 3-4 years! Loyalty, it seems, is a one-way street. Mike Raceboat 61-S

[DtwSailor]

not confirmed yet

Before we get our feeling hurt, I want to reiterate that I have not heard a definite answer. I saw a post on the Top O facebook page, and commented on it, but it seems that post is no longer active or comments have been deleted.

I wanted to use this forum as a communication medium to verify, and show that we have a number of willing entries.

Crossing our fingers!

[opie see]

Here's hoping

I first saw the message that the "Classics" weren't invited back early this year in Jeff Brewster's notes from the National APBA meeting.

I reached out to Jeff and he encouraged me to contact Dave Umbarger and Mark Kurz at the TOMORC.

I spoke with both gentlemen but never was able to get a definitive answer...hopefully inclusion of the Classics is still being discussed.

Perhaps if enough folks respond to this thread and post their intentions to run (we are planning to running two boats, B/U and D/U) perhaps the club will see the potential of including us geezers.

So how about an informal roll call of "Classics" that are ready to run Top O'.

Joe Schulte

[noodles]

whats classic I have a y-80 that is 1979 is that classic, I would love to run the river and not the whole race,physically I couldn't run those lakes two days

[opie see]

Stock Outboard Classic Rules

According to the current APBA rule book, the determining rule for Stock Outboard Classic Division entries is the requirement that the engine have been out of production for at least 25 years.

I'm not sure when Yamato 80 production was discontinued...for your sake, I hope it was 25 years ago.

Joe Schulte

[noodles]

just a question I don't know but I think I could get a brother and a friend or two to run that, I was really interested in that class watching the races last year. Also I might have a J driver next year he will be 9 and is having fun in his boat.

[pearson95m]

I’m going open with a disclaimer; The following post is only speculation based on a couple discussions at the water cooler.

As most of us know, Top O is a logistical nightmare to coordinate. Permits, insurances, volunteers and funding only scratch the surface of what needs to take place. Most of these things are ongoing throughout the year. However, on race day everything gets amplified 100 fold. And most of the club members are participating in the race itself. So a ton of pressure is put on a few amount of people. Course set up, coordination with the coast guard, sheriff and patrol boats alone is a 10+ person job. Then you add on top the tight start schedule between classes (due to insurances and permits requirements)… then trying to squeeze the J class in a small window time frame (after everyone has started and before anyone returns)…. all while answering phones and notifying pit crews of the drivers who have broken down or sunk on mullet lake… Honestly, I don’t know how the 4 or 5 people on the judges stand do it!. I think (in my opinion) that the club decided that something needed to give. They simply don’t have the people. The safety of the race was starting to be jeopardized. And as most of us know, it will only take one incident for the race to be stopped. In my opinion, the classics were the sacrificial lamb. That is by no means anything personal. In fact, we love all you guys and so do the fans of the race. I think they looked at the participation and weighed the cost/reward and decided it wasn’t worth the risk… at this time. That doesn’t mean it won’t ever happen again. Personally, I think if the Club could get more help (especially on race day), it is defiantly possible.

Again, I have no facts to any of this… just my observation and small discussions around the water cooler.

[kampkurz]

classics at Top'O

Time to weigh in here. Josh is correct. I love classics. I love Top'O. I love Top'O more than I love classics. I was not present at the meeting that the vote was made at. I would have been there as I almost always am, but my meeting notice went to spam, as I found out later. I would have fought for them, but as a loyal and actve TOMORC member, I would have assimilated with the wishes of the majority of those present.
I brought it up again....on the phone with Dave Umbarger and expressed my concerns with letting the classics go. There just aren't enough oppurtunities to run marathons and classics.
Josh is correct that it is the opinion of our club that the logistics of fitting them in between the stocks and the J'sbest and the fact that we were working to squeeze only a few boats....I think only three one year... that it was not worth the trouble.
I don't think the issue is dead. I think it will require more effort and definitely more participation.
Talked to Joe Schulte and was asked would it help if much of the extra effort was being handled by the classic participants themselves. I this k it would, especially if enough entries could be secured.
I have talked to Dave about maybe starting a discussion about another weekend??? Which I know may be too tough to make happen. It really is tough to get the Inland Waterway closed, but who knows.
I know that we did not merely 'toss' classics from the schedule with little or no consideration. Let's keep the discussion alive.
Maybe Joe can organize all potential classic participants and make a show of strength an interstate in classics participation. I will try to keep some interest from the club.

[DtwSailor]

Classics are not dead folks

Thanks guys for the updates. From a personal view, yes I am disappointed, but from the realistic view, I agree with the concerns of the club, especially when it comes to safety. Yes, one incident will be a blow to the organization.

For those with Classics, however, don't despair. Let's get organized and watch from the sideline this year to see how and if we can assist the club and look at the schedule to see if there is a time that is clear in the river to race. I challenge each one of us that was planning on racing to come and assist the club with the organization and see firsthand the work that is involved.

In the meantime, I will invite all classic outboard racers to the MHRA races in Grass Lake and Big Rapids for the short course marathon. Deck racing has been fielding a boat and driver for the past 2 years, and well, he needs a little competition!

[opie see]

Keeping the Classics at Top O'

Mark is right...and so is Josh.

As Mark and I discussed a few months ago, and as he noted in his reply...I pledged to do whatever I can to help.

We have a good team available to help...including APBA risk managers, APBA referees, etc. TOMORC won't have to deal with that...we can provide that to them.

Likewise, we can provide our own registration team, if that would help.

Scoring is not an issue, since there are no points or prizes involved.

In terms of course set-up and scheduling, I would hope that can be worked out with the Club. It's not like we have to go 40+ miles and cross two lakes on consecutive days.

We need somewhere fun to run (just one day) that doesn't tear-up our old equipment...either our boats or our bodies.

Based on Mark's comments to me, last year the "Classics" had a tough time getting started on time....in fact, some just plain had problems getting started.

As a result there was concern that the "Classics" would be on the course when and where the SO Marathon boats were racing, causing problems for the "real" racers.

That is manageable. Have an agreed upon starting time...and start. If you can't, get off the course. Every entrant has to understand that the "Be ready, Be on time" philosophy will be strictly enforced.

Whatever it would take to keep the Classics out of the way of the "racers" is the goal. That would seem to be something we can work together to accomplish...without putting a strain on the Top O' race committee.

In a note to Dave Umbarger a few months ago, I volunteered to come to a TOMORC meeting to see how we can help. The offer still stands.

I know that if the solution is logistics, we can deal with it.

If there are enough entries we can present a "turnkey" solution to concerns that "Classics" may have caused in the past.

Step one would be a posting on hydroracer.net from everyone we can count on bringing a "Classic" to Top O'...and who will support our effort to make this a great success for all involved.

Let's show them we want it.

Post your intentions ASAP.

While you are at it, if you know some racers who have "Classics" but don't usually visit hydroracer, give them a heads-up and get them to post if they are planning to attend.

Count me in for two boats and drivers... B/U and a D/U

Joe Schulte

[raceboat61-S]

Possible solution to reduce some safety concerns and keep Classics and "J" from potential conflicts might be to : Saturday, start Classics with the DSR's or one of the later starting Inflatables. Classics turn around at Breakers and any head-on traffic would be on Mullet. We'll be back in the pits 19 minutes later and avoid two-way traffic in the river.
Sunday, start us with ANY other class ( the river is already closed anyway) and we go to the Breakers and we're back in the pits before the "J" class even starts while everyone else is still on Burt or Crooked? Whaddya' think ? Mike Raceboat 61-S

[JP53-N]

Dang, a classic Top O' marathon is on my bucket list. I've got a 20H BU rig ready to go for it and was planning on attending next year. Keep me in the loop fellas.

[pearson95m]

Mike,
That’s a great suggestion. However, I believe these sort of suggestions have been thought of. The problem is (and might be a good homework task for someone) would be to verify the course times for each class. I know the past couple years the times have been posted on the Top O website. Perhaps getting a 10 year sample of race times and then figure out an average time (or better yet, worst case scenario time) for each class. Then we could get a realistically get an idea of the windows of time needed to run the classics and J’s.

I know originally (about 25 years ago) Don Voisin and his band of merry friends painfully went through this process to arrive at our current start times. This is why on Sunday the start times are so odd… 2min, 7min, 4min intervals. The goal was to have everyone out of the Crooked river before anyone started to return. I think this might be a good task to revisit anyway due to the increase in speeds (particularly the 25 and C classes). I know in recent years we’ve been cutting it close…. some of these guys are just barely out of crooked when the first few boats (usually a 25 and/or a C) are returning.

Bottom line, if we could get a clear picture of the time splits and how they relate to where people are on the course. We might be able to adjust the start times, start order, ect… This can also provide a clearer picture of a possible window for the J’s and Classics. Or in the end, we might just find that the current way is still the best. I would also suggest that if you do take on this task, you get a hold of Don Voisin. He would be a valuable source of input and already understands all the “critical” places in the race… like 2 way traffic areas, locks, opening and closing of the rivers, ect…

Anyway… just a suggestion