anyone raceing d-mod,form-e hydro

[mercguy]

wow, If you guys in region 10 want a place to run your D-mods-tots we have it, 6-8boats on the beach beats sitting on the trailer, cheaper too. Cheney we are getting closer to having new wood.

if you remember, a couple of us Reg10 D/Dmod guys were at your end of the season 09 Moses race..............including a Tohatsu.........we came away with good results! Mind it the winner was a 40mod...........2nd was a Tohatsu....dont recall 6-8 other mods though........

[R-43Mod]

Yes I do and we had a blast!! From what I hear there have been much activity over the winter, a few people we have not heard from in a while, as always proof is in the warm bodies that actually show up. Hope to see you this year.
Dan

[blueskyracer]

Yes I do and we had a blast!! From what I hear there have been much activity over the winter, a few people we have not heard from in a while, as always proof is in the warm bodies that actually show up. Hope to see you this year.
Dan

Dan, post some pictures of the new wood you and Tyler are working on or is it Top Secret

[R-43Mod]

Oh, it's top secret, all I'm at liberty to say is if it works C-Stock should be fun!!

[Dave M]

My Question - Still Not Answered

I asked what has changed ? From reading along HR the last few years I have seen posts about people running the Hotsu in 750CCMH just to test. If all you want is another class to use the same equipment to race I don't see the problem. Run it for no points. Why would you care about points if you are just testing in the class anyway ? Or has something changed ?

Bob Koshka has been in boat racing longer than just about anyone in MOD. I would take what he says as gospel. So if he says Darren did not show and present what was asked, I believe him. Bob has integrity, and knows the process. I wouldn't try to tear him down, you will lose. You would be hard pressed to replace him on the commish. Fair, factual and very giving to the sport.

I also provided my Reg 6 commish a proposal for the Nat meeting. It did not make it even to a vote, so that is how the process works.

I don't personally have an interest in the hotsu being in 750CCM so as long as the process is followed and the rules followed, you guys should be pleased. Just becasue the outcome is not what you wanted does not mean it was not meaninful.

Dan Piggot said it best. Look at history. Make the decisions from there. I don't race 750CCM so i don't have a say.

Why not continue to build the Mod/Stock ranks there, just run a local class of D Mod that allows both engines in ? Then you can have your testing and more seat time. Heck you can run three classes with it if you do..... DSH/850CCMH and local class with Hotsu and Mercs.

And for the rest of the country east of there, the parts for the Mercs are not so hard to find. Weisco pistons, I have seen the ads by Dave Scott, Phil Mcdaniel, etc. There are pistons new in box available..... I bet you can still buy rods..... bearings you can buy new from any good bearing supply store, and cheaper than Merc ever had them for. heck, I have seen several stock 55H blocks on ebay.... even posted on this website. Maybe if one of you guys had the start up cash, you could stockpile some inventory and offer it as a one stop shopping center for your Merc 750CCM. Dudley Malone sells the megaphones, Eric Vanover sells the filler blocks, all new stuff.

I guess it is not stock, it is Mod. You should have to do a little homework to make an engine and tweak on it. Kind of the way it works I guess.

[guedo499]

bill.... there all lie's the stories youve heard ,,,,heheheh,,,, i deff will be at moses lake and eatonvilee and lawerance,,, and of course at nats in orville,,,, soo if any moders want to plan on that speak up lets put something together,,,,,,, can mods be combined with pro at reg 10 races so as to let them race also,,,as we use todo in the old days,,,,,,,,,,, also how many d-stocks in region 10 pat and dave and bill and peters and??? as i will/can bring a d-stock also..... need to get my stocker going for the 1 1/4 mile comp records,,,,, give peter's some comp??? hehe hopefully

I remember when I was just a young lad, my pops told be not to hang around you guys! Too many f-bombs I assume...

In undergrad, I was recruited to be a tutor in advanced math, econ and creative writing. I assume you have the math down just fine, but after the races I'd be more than happy to go over some grammar tutorials with you! Ha! Just giving you a hard time!! I do look forward to racing against you, as when you are growing up, every kid watches the races and see the people out there; it's really cool to race against those people when you finally have a chance!

By the way, I'll be sporting a "D-Mad" quiet Merc this year - with a remote choke and a starter to boot!

See you at the start!

[Danny Pigott]

Tohatsu

Where can i buy a 2010 40 HP Tohatsu , I have a 40 Yamaha but don't think it will run with the Tohatsu. I might try it in FEH. With the right boat an the motor lower enough it might work. I remember in the late 70' i tried to get the 3 hole OMC on the table for EMH 44. h### they almost ran me out of the room. Next i tried to get the short tower for Then EMH on the table, The VP told me that he put it on, and now for me to get it passed, he said it did not stand a chance because drivers would not give up there Bayer towers. I had drove a lot of PRO Hydros ,an knew how much better they were . the VP was right it did not pass, it was a tie vote. And in that case the rule stayed the same.Then later it was passed some time in the late 80'
s i guess.

[94H]

Daren, Dana and Pat,
I went to the archives this weekend and found the following timeline of events. I retract my earlier comment about performance data from Howard, I have data from Howard which shows torque / HP of the Tohatsu compared to the 44XS. I do not have any lap sheet data.

Here are the Mod Commission events since 2004

2004 – Milwaukee
•A letter was submitted by Neil Bass asking the Mod Commission to allow the Tohatsu engine in the D and the FE class. Details in his letter outlined his business plan and parts availability.

2005 – Atlanta
* The Tohatsu engine was accepted as a legal FE engine with specifications same as the 44 XS (no open exhaust). 11 in favor / zero against / 1 abstain
•Tohatsu was made prototype engine in the D Class.

2006 – Fort Lauderdale –
•A four page spec sheet for the Tohatsu engine was handed out by Howard Shaw. The spec sheet included engine specifications and Dyno data from Weinandt Performance Technology.
•A proposal was made to make the Tohatsu legal in the D Class.
•No Motion was made to allow the Tohatsu as a legal D engine.

2007 – Los Angeles
•Motion passed to allow the Tohatsu engine as a prototype (second time) in the D class for the 2007 year – Motion revised later in the meeting
•Tohatsu discussion was re-opened and motion was passed to allow the stock Tohatsu to run as a prototype in D class using a four blade propeller and no height restrictions.

2008 – Detroit
•No Tohatsu performance / lap sheet data was presented to the Mod Commission .
•A proposal was made to make the Tohatsu legal in the750 class - failed 6 against / 5 in favor and 2 abstain

2009 – Raleigh
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to run in the 750 class in stock configuration with 4 blades and no height restrictions. Failed – 4 in favor / 7 against / 4 abstain
•The Tohatsu engine was approved to be run in 750 class as a prototype (third time) with a four blade propeller and no height restrictions. Data was to be gathered from East and West coast race sites and presented at the 2010 Seattle meeting ( 10 in favor / 1 against and 2 abstain).

2010 – Seattle
•No one responsible for the 2009 lap sheet data was present at the 2010 meeting.
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to race in 750 in stock form ( three blade propeller and ½” height restriction) – failed (3 for / 6 against / 1 abstain)
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to race in 750 in stock form with a four blade and no height restriction)– failed ( 1 for / 6 against / 3 abstain)

Bob Koschka

[14-H]

What Are You Worried About?

The Tohatsu has been legal in D Stock for 3 years and everyone thought it would immediately eliminate the 44XS stock. The Tohatsu hasn't won the nationals or set a record yet in D Stock!

[Brian10s]

Doesn't look like worry but a lack of follow through by the individuals that had requesting the Tohatsu. All that was asked for was some summary sheets with lap times for 2 classes (750 & DSH w/ who ran a Tohatsu). All it would have taken was 5 minutes per race with the scorer and a few stamps. This is not a huge deal. It seems to be the easy route to call someone scared and chicken when in reality, its pretty easy to see who dropped the ball.

And Ed, if memory serves, you have asked for data on several items during your first run as top dog. Not to mention the parity committies that were set up. Wither data is needed or not isn't the point. The Commission asked for it in order to make the best decision possible and received nothing in return.
I have zero invested in this (except I was really hoping Tball Koschka would have been much more entertaining and less logical about this) but unless there is something missing here, it seems pretty clear where the 3 year hold up is.

[Art K]

Tohatsu

In NBRA racing we allow the Hatsu to run in our D class Which consists of the Hatsu & the Stock 44ci Merc and the Mod 40ci Merc or the old 55H. All motors can run Any prop with no height restrictions,same weight. It is a real dog fight trying to beat the Mod 40ci Merc. A good Mod Merc is more than competitive. Our E class is the 44ci Merc only motor allowed their. Me & my son run a Hatsu and 44ci Mod Merc & their is no way the Hatsu will run with Merc 5mph difference or more. All I can say if your 44 Mod won,t beat a Hatsu you have a real pig.
Art K

[94H]

The Tohatsu has been legal in D Stock for 3 years and everyone thought it would immediately eliminate the 44XS stock. The Tohatsu hasn't won the nationals or set a record yet in D Stock!

Ed,
We're not talking Stock configuration, we want to see what happens when you use a 4 blade propeller with no height restrictions. I haven't looked at numbers but I'd guess the 750Mod class has more participants than DSH and we're concerned.

Intersting use of words - "yet in D Stock"

BK

[blueskyracer]

Ed,
We're not talking Stock configuration, we want to see what happens when you use a 4 blade propeller with no height restrictions. I haven't looked at numbers but I'd guess the 750Mod class has more participants than DSH and we're concerned.

Intersting use of words - "yet in D Stock"

BK

If it is not legal then how are you going to get data about four blades and no height restrictions. If it has been shown that the Tohatsu is not up to the performance of a Merc than what is the big deal?

[mercguy]

interesting...........

Daren, Dana and Pat,
I went to the archives this weekend and found the following timeline of events. I retract my earlier comment about performance data from Howard, I have data from Howard which shows torque / HP of the Tohatsu compared to the 44XS. I do not have any lap sheet data.

Here are the Mod Commission events since 2004

2004 – Milwaukee
•A letter was submitted by Neil Bass asking the Mod Commission to allow the Tohatsu engine in the D and the FE class. Details in his letter outlined his business plan and parts availability.

2005 – Atlanta
* The Tohatsu engine was accepted as a legal FE engine with specifications same as the 44 XS (no open exhaust). 11 in favor / zero against / 1 abstain
•Tohatsu was made prototype engine in the D Class.

2006 – Fort Lauderdale –
•A four page spec sheet for the Tohatsu engine was handed out by Howard Shaw. The spec sheet included engine specifications and Dyno data from Weinandt Performance Technology.
•A proposal was made to make the Tohatsu legal in the D Class.
•No Motion was made to allow the Tohatsu as a legal D engine.

2007 – Los Angeles
•Motion passed to allow the Tohatsu engine as a prototype (second time) in the D class for the 2007 year – Motion revised later in the meeting
•Tohatsu discussion was re-opened and motion was passed to allow the stock Tohatsu to run as a prototype in D class using a four blade propeller and no height restrictions.

2008 – Detroit
•No Tohatsu performance / lap sheet data was presented to the Mod Commission .
•A proposal was made to make the Tohatsu legal in the750 class - failed 6 against / 5 in favor and 2 abstain

2009 – Raleigh
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to run in the 750 class in stock configuration with 4 blades and no height restrictions. Failed – 4 in favor / 7 against / 4 abstain
•The Tohatsu engine was approved to be run in 750 class as a prototype (third time) with a four blade propeller and no height restrictions. Data was to be gathered from East and West coast race sites and presented at the 2010 Seattle meeting ( 10 in favor / 1 against and 2 abstain).

2010 – Seattle
•No one responsible for the 2009 lap sheet data was present at the 2010 meeting.
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to race in 750 in stock form ( three blade propeller and ½” height restriction) – failed (3 for / 6 against / 1 abstain)
•A proposal was made to allow the Tohatsu to race in 750 in stock form with a four blade and no height restriction)– failed ( 1 for / 6 against / 3 abstain)

Bob Koschka

nice time line Bob!!! Here's a SERIOUS question...........................how was the Tohatsu approved for use in FE without testing or lap data? Especially since the motor was not ran the year prior..............you should also note that the 09 Proposal we (me and Cavanaugh) ALSO included FREEZING the rules for 3yrs for the Tohatsu (being raced as proposed with 4blade prop (which does not increase speeds) and no height restriction)......

PS: Dmod did have a few more participants than Dstock did in 09 BECAUSE of the D stock guys thats that stepped up to race MOD to fill the class...............remove those stockers and the numbers would be dramatically different.......atleast 10 less MOD participants if you removed the Reg10 participation...........

[94H]

If it is not legal then how are you going to get data about four blades and no height restrictions. If it has been shown that the Tohatsu is not up to the performance of a Merc than what is the big deal?

Blueskyracer,
Engines that are "prototype status" are allowed to run in a designated Modified class to gather performance data / lap sheet data for review. In this case the Tohatsu (with 4 blade and jacked to the moon) could of run in the 750 Mod class for data but no points. It is expected that the person(s) requesting the prototype status review their data at the following National Meeting.

Where has it been shown that the Tohatsu is not up to the performance of the 44? The data that Howard supplied the Mod Commission shows the HP / torque of the Tohatsu better than the 44XS (ranging from 3500 to 6750 RPM).

For once 10S and I are in agreement. What a strange world!

BK