PRO Ballot,Please Read, and VOTE NO

[Kristi Ellison]

When I took on the Responsibility of President of the Title Series I made it my first obligation to advocate for the Series over anything else. I accept that I will never make everyone happy and that not everyone will agree with the decisions I make but as long as the majority is supporting me I am fulfilling my obligation. In order to keep in line with my obligation I ask you to read the following carefully and act accordingly.

At the meeting in Atlanta the PRO Commission proposed the following amendments to the by-laws which will come out on ballot in March:

 Rule 23. PRO Championships, change Section C, item “h” to read: “For National Championships, the PRO Commission shall select and approve the Referee and the Inspector.” (To ballot of all PRO members. If approved by vote, this change would be implemented 30 days after approval.)

 Rule 23. PRO Championships, change Section D, item “6” to read: “For World Championships, the PRO Commission shall select and approve the Referee and the Inspector.” (To ballot of all PRO members. If approved by vote, this change would be implemented 30 days after approval.)

If this ballot passes, the conducting club will have NO say in which officials are used in the race they work so hard to put on. Although the Nationals is not a Series race, we are the conducting club and have been for over 20 years and there is no sound rationale for the PRO Commission to micromanage to this degree to ensure a smooth race. The Commission already indirectly picks the officials, since the chosen officials come directly off the Commissions approved list of race officials. The Nationals is a collaborative effort based on communication, hard work and the common goal of running a top notch race. This effort has paid off year after successful year in one of the best outboard programs around. These rule changes are not for the benefit of all involved in the planning and execution of the Nationals.
Because I do not believe in complaing about a problem without offering a solution; I propose to the PRO Commision that the rule be based on the original rule, which states the conducting club choose but change it to the Commision approves( instead of the PRO Chairperson).
That way no one becomes a scapegoat and the club can pick,off the approved list, who they would like to work with.
I am NOT interested nor is it my intent to disrespect the Commission. In fact, I have tremendous respect for the dedication and invaluable time they give to the sport of racing. I just disagree with these proposed rule changes and would like to see a better solution for the problems concerning officials that occured last year.
VOTE NO when the ballot comes out and be sure to mail it back to APBA on time.
Sincerely,
Kristi Ellison,President, USTS

[Kristi Ellison]

Bump Bump Bump

[Kristi Ellison]

Ballots come out 15 March. If you don't vote and mail the ballot back...don't complain if the conducting of a PRO World or National Champioship has no choice in whom the officials running the race are. This is our chance to make this all right and stop all the bantering and nonscense.
Please give a d...n and VOTE.

[Guest]

It's your PRO Division - VOTE

I’ll be voting NO on these proposed rule changes.

The existing rules which have been in effect for at least 20 years allows the sponsoring club to SELECT a name(s) from a list compiled by the PRO Commission. The name was then APPROVED by the PRO Chairperson.

The current rules allow the sponsoring club to select individuals that they feel they are most comfortable working with.

The proposed rules remove this important choice from the sponsoring club

Bill Kurps

[Dr. Thunder]

I’ll be voting NO on these proposed rule changes.

The existing rules which have been in effect for at least 20 years allows the sponsoring club to SELECT a name(s) from a list compiled by the PRO Commission. The name was then APPROVED by the PRO Chairperson.

The current rules allow the sponsoring club to select individuals that they feel they are most comfortable working with.

The proposed rules remove this important choice from the sponsoring club

Bill Kurps

This is still all very confusing to someone not present during the Pro Commission deliberations leading up to the proposal. What is the background for this proposal? Does USTS or a sponsoring club want the Pro Chair to be able to approve the Referee and inspector or not? Currently, who selects the officials and who approves? How can the curent rules allow the sponsoring club right to select if the Pro Chair ultimately approves? Perhaps I'm confused by "select" and "approve" do these terms have different meanings as applied here?

[Guest]

Questions and Answers

This is still all very confusing to someone not present during the Pro Commission deliberations leading up to the proposal. What is the background for this proposal? Does USTS or a sponsoring club want the Pro Chair to be able to approve the Referee and inspector or not? Currently, who selects the officials and who approves? How can the curent rules allow the sponsoring club right to select if the Pro Chair ultimately approves? Perhaps I'm confused by "select" and "approve" do these terms have different meanings as applied here?

Currently, who selects the officials and who approves?
Answer...Sponsoring Club SELECTS a name from an approved list prepared for the upcoming race season by the PRO Commission. The name is then APPROVED or NOT APPROVED by the PRO Chairperson.

What is the background for this proposal?
Answer....It is my understanding in the last few years the PRO Chairperson has tried to SELECT and APPROVE. The way the rule is written now, if the sponsoring club does not select a name that the PRO Chairperson would prefer that name can not be approved. At this time its a check and balance system.

If the rule(s) where rewritten to allow the sponsoring club to SELECT and the PRO Commission to APPROVE the name(s) that would be the best of all worlds. But I believe that could not happen until the next National Meeting.


Perhaps I'm confused by "select" and "approve" do these terms have different meanings as applied here?
Answer.... SELECT means to pick in this case from a list of names.
APPROVE to OK the selection.

I hope I answered your questions.

Bill Kurps

[Kristi Ellison]

I agree with Bill and his explanation. I would like the rule to read the club will select the officials off the approved list and the Pro Commision will approve the selections. In the past the approval was just a checks and balances and a formality.

There was an incidence where the club picked and the Chaiperson did not approve and it became an out and out war for a little while. I am sure there was a whole lot more to it but the Chairperson was hung out there and the club involved was very unhappy also. I do not want to see any precedents set that allow all that happen again.

So for this year I personally, and there are many who agree with me, would like the rule to remain unchanged. I think the Chairperson and I are in agreement about the choice of officials and I don't anticipate any rancor this year. I have told the Commision I would like to propose for next year, if we defeat this, we change the rule to: the club selects and the Commision( not Chairperson) approves. That way the club involved can choose whom they would like to work with and the Chairperson is not out hung out there.

I am not going behind anyones backs( they all know how I feel) or bad mouthing the Commision...7 of them are USTS members. I am trying to advocate what is best for all involved. I hope that makes it a little clearer.

Kristi

[Dr. Thunder]

Bill ... Kristy ... thanks for your responses ...

But, I'm still confused. Not only that but this issue does not at present even apply to me. I'm just a curious APBA member/reader trying to keep abreast of things going on. I'm planning to vote on this issue but seriously ... it's about as clear as mud. So ...

[QUOTE=Kristi Ellison]

"...The Commission already indirectly picks the officials, since the chosen officials come directly off the Commissions approved list of race officials".

Does the Commission pick the officials or does the Pro Chairman pick the officials?

"Because I do not believe in complaing about a problem without offering a solution; I propose to the PRO Commision that the rule be based on the original rule ..."

Is the "original" rule the same as the "current" rule?

which states the conducting club choose but change it to the Commision approves( instead of the PRO Chairperson).

Does the current and/or original rule read that the Pro Commissioner approves ... my read of the proposed rule change is that the "Commission" will select and approve (which is really the same thing since its unlikely that the Commission would select officials and then not approve their own selection).

Where does the proposed rule state that the Pro Chairman approves?

It looks for all the world that the proposed rule changes won't change anything since currently the Pro Commission can "veto", "overide" (or whatever you want to call it) the preferences of the conducting club.

I'm assuming that any individual name(s) recommended by a conducting club would be APBA approved officials for the Pro category. Why would the Pro Commission overide any name ... what is this all about? The average member not on the inside of these things can't read between the lines ... somebody needs to clear this up!

[Guest]

But, I'm still confused. Not only that but this issue does not at present even apply to me. I'm just a curious APBA member/reader trying to keep abreast of things going on. I'm planning to vote on this issue but seriously ... it's about as clear as mud. So ...

Dear Dr. Thunder,
Let me try to explain.

First the upcoming vote is for the PRO Division, many PRO drivers don't even know this ballot is coming, that is the reason it has been posted here. The best and most read Boat Racing Web Site!


Is the "original" rule the same as the "current" rule?
Answer....Yes.

Where does the proposed rule state that the Pro Chairman approves?
Answer..It does not. In the current rule the PRO Chairperson APPROVES

Does the current and/or original rule read that the Pro Commissioner approves?
Answer...Yes.

my read of the proposed rule change is that the "Commission" will select and approve (which is really the same thing since its unlikely that the Commission would select officials and then not approve their own selection)
Answer....The PRO Commission, if the rule(s) are changed, will SELECT and APPROVE the selected officials. The sponsoring club who actually perform all the work, would NOT have any say in the selection.

I'm assuming that any individual name(s) recommended by a conducting club would be APBA approved officials for the Pro category. Why would the Pro Commission overide any name ... what is this all about? The average member not on the inside of these things can't read between the lines ... somebody needs to clear this up.
Answer...At this time the PRO Chairperson APPROVES or NOT APPROVE the club's SELECTION. As said before the club SELECTS from the PRO Commission's list of officials. (The meat and potatoes)...... In the last two years the PRO Chairperson disagreed with the club's selection.

It looks for all the world that the proposed rule changes won't change anything since currently the Pro Commission can "veto", "overide" (or whatever you want to call it) the preferences of the conducting club.
Answer...Not true. The club will not SELECT the officials if the rule passes.

Is this a little clearer?
Bill

[Kristi Ellison]

Dr Thunder

All I am asking is to vote this down,which leaves it like it is until next year. If we change it now we are not likely to turn around a year later and ask it be changed again.

Next year I will formally ask that the rule be changed to: the conducting club choose the officials from the approved list; the commision will approve the selections.

If we change it next year, I believe we will avoid any perception of biased on the part of the Pro Chair, but still allow the club the to select who they would like to work with to conduct these races. I believe that the conducting club should have the right to pick the officials they want. Since those officials are APBA and PRO approved there should not be any issues with the choices.

I have put his out on the web because I want to inform the drivers like yourself how this works so you understand what you are voting for or against.

I hope that makes th emud a little clearer

[Kristi Ellison]

I did not mean to imply that there was any biased,but the Pro Chair was practically strung up for vetoing the choices in the past and right or wrong we don't need that kind of "rancor" when planning a championship race for the whole division. I am trying to find away to make the nonsense go away so we can all go racing and have fun.

Kristi

[Dr. Thunder]

Thanks again Bill ... we're getting closer ...

The PRO Commission, if the rule(s) are changed, will SELECT and APPROVE the selected officials. The sponsoring club who actually perform all the work, would NOT have any say in the selection.

Kristi indicated that at least seven (7) of the current commissioners are USTS members ... wouln't it be better to have a "new" rule that required the "commission to SELECT and APPROVE rather than the current situation where the Chair can reject a recommendation? 7 of the 11 looks like a better deal to me than letting the Chair call that shot.

What was the rationale for the Commission members approved of these ballot items in the first place?

In the last two years the PRO Chairperson disagreed with the club's selection.

Do you have any idea why that happened?

I see from the recent USTS meeting minutes that Messrs. Bosnick, and Litzell have been named as the officials for all USTS events but the Nationals. Did Mr. Greaves pick the Referee and Inspector for the Nationals? Did he reject the above named USTS series officials?

Bill

Thanks again for being patient while I try to understand the politics of this.

[Kristi Ellison]

I did indicate that 7 of the 11 are USTS members but there is no guarantee that the USTS will always run the Nationals or that the commision members won't change.

I selected the officials for this year and I have submitted them to Mr. Greaves and I am waiting for final approval.

I think the commisons reasoning is to avoid a repeat of last year when this went back and forth for months and accusations were getting thrown everywhere from both sides. It was ugly and most racers did not even know it was going on.

As to what happened to start all this...I have been privey to most of it but I do not feel it is appropriate to air it on the internet. Suffice it to say to allow the conducting club to choose and the commision to approve will keep everyone informed to the decisons and give neither too much control over the decision. I believe that keeps both parties involved and therefore satisfied.

Just my 2 cents
Kristi

[Dr. Thunder]

Still trying to understand the issue ...

I did indicate that 7 of the 11 are USTS members but there is no guarantee that the USTS will always run the Nationals or that the commision members won't change.

So, if USTS doesn't run the Nationals then this is a moot subject for USTS ...

I selected the officials for this year and I have submitted them to Mr. Greaves and I am waiting for final approval.

Are requests required to be sent by mail? Have you talked to him in person or by phone? What criteria does the Chairman use for determining whether or not he approves a request?

In an earlier post you wrote "... I think the Chairperson and I are in agreement about the choice of officials and I don't anticipate any rancor this year.

And in another post you said "... all I am asking is to vote this down,which leaves it like it is until next year.

If you leave it like last year won't you potentially face the same problem ... if not, then why worry about the vote this year if the officials for Nationals are already assured?

If we change it now we are not likely to turn around a year later and ask it be changed again.

Are you saying that if the proposition passes you would or would not try for new language next year?

...I have told the Commision I would like to propose for next year, if we defeat this, we change the rule to: the club selects and the Commision( not Chairperson) approves. That way the club involved can choose whom they would like to work with and the Chairperson is not out hung out there.

Who elects the Chair ... isn't it the Commission members? Are you saying that the Chairman overruled the Commission members last year and they still re-appointed him?

I think the commisons reasoning is to avoid a repeat of last year when this went back and forth for months and accusations were getting thrown everywhere from both sides. It was ugly and most racers did not even know it was going on.

Why didn't the racing membership know? Why didn't someone alert the members if the Pro Chair was acting in a manner not in the best interest of the membership?

As to what happened to start all this...I have been privey to most of it but I do not feel it is appropriate to air it on the internet.

I assume you are really serious with that comment or you wouldn't have said it but why in the world would you think that the membership should not be privey to the very reasons for the Commission approving a resolution that you are now asking the majority of Commissioners to reject ... as well as the general membership of the Pro category and, at one and the same time using this very forum for that purpose?

Regardless of how ugly the reasons are for why this mess started the membership (at least those on this list that you are personally appealing to) deserves to know (at least those of us that don't) what the heck happened.


Suffice it to say to allow the conducting club to choose and the commision to approve will keep everyone informed to the decisons and give neither too much control over the decision. I believe that keeps both parties involved and therefore satisfied.

Why would it keep everyone informed anymore now than last year? We still haven't been told what took place. Even if the club selects from an approved list the Commission (under the control of the Chair) could still reject the names selected?
Just my 2 cents
Kristi

Kristi ... I sincerely do appreciate your feedback and your obvious passion on this issue. Thank you for your willingness to speak out.

[Kristi Ellison]

Good Morning Dr. Thunder

Wew let me see if I can clarify some of my answers for you

1. The USTS does run the race for the Pro Division and have for 22 years but we may not always be the conducting club so I am trying to make it easier for any club putting on the Pro Nationals or Worlds.

2. I discussed who I was considering at the meeting in Atlanta and submitted them to Mr. Greaves by email. I do not know what criteria the Chairperson uses to approve or disapprove.

3. I was not the President of USTS last year, my discussion with Mr. Greaves at the Natioanls meeting led me to beleive we are in agreement about this years officials...hence my statement I am not concerned about this year.

4. If the ballot passes it goes into effect 30 days later...If my assumtion is wrong about this year and my choices...than potentially I will have no choice in my officials for this year...I would like to beleive that is not true and heir on the side of optimism.

5. If the ballot passes I would still ask the commision to reconsider next year and allow the club to choose their officials.

6. I am not privy to the communication between the Chair and the commision so can't answer that one.

7. It is not my place to put on the internet communications between other people. There were 2 sides and that is in the past. I am not asking the commision to reject the decision. I am asking the membership to recognize there may be a more constuctive way to go about his that keeps checks and balances and does not pit the chairperson and the president of the conducting club against each other if a mutual agreement is not reached.

8. You are correct that the commsion could reject the names. I do not see the Chairperson as controlling the group, I know everyone of them and each is very opinionated and not easily swayed. When I referred to everyone being informed,I meant the commioners and the conducting club. This is a joint effort and it requires communication and compromise not one group controlling the whole shebang.

Thanks so much for your interest, I hope after all this you will vote one way or the other, whichever you feel is best for the Nationals and Worlds.

Kristi