175 UIM WC at Depue

[raceright]

We know it's not your class!! You've said that several times so why don't u let the people who run the class post what they want to do.. Just saying

I don't stop them from posting Quite the opossite my comments have caused more to post..Just do not think its safe when ya cross the course and turn into a blind turn but hey myself included what ever floats your boat--

[brandxracingf66]

Jimmy..........just cause us old guys like the clock starts doesn't mean we can't learn new tricks. If an old dog like us can still race......we can still learn new tricks.

theres nothing new about jetty starts--they are tricks in my opion. ive started both types many times--why is it always europe we try to copy??? lets have an american style race clock start!!

[Rex Hall]

175H World Championship

Wichever you prefer, jetty start or clock start, plan now to be at the front of the pack with a new GRM 175 twin cylinder motor. Now in stock, Powerhead special, $5300.00 or complete motor with programmable ignition and hydraulic up and down tower and your choice of gear ratio in the lower unit, $7500.00. Order now, contact Rex Hall at rexfordhall@aol.com or call (816)532-4588

[T Chance]

To anyone that thinks that just because it is a UIM World Championship that it has to be a beach start, I have pasted the following from the UIM rulebook:

305 - THE START
305.01
Starts are:
- flying start with clock (14 boats maximum)
- dead engine start.

Personally I have been racing a long time and like clock starts. That said, should I lose my mind and run Jack Kaemmer's hydro in 175 at Depue, I would like to do it with a beach start.

[Ralph Donald]

Tim's post is correct.This is why I made the post in the first place. UIM allows both, but a clock start is seldom used. Although I don't expect more than a couple of foreign drivers for the 175, some of the comments about the Lake Alfred race were that we should see how the foreigners would do competitively with a clock start. However, even if we have another multi class UIM race as Lake Alfred, and put in the advance program that all classes would be clock starts, the foreign participation will be poor. I believe a beach start is more entertaining for spectators, but a clock start usually makes the program move faster, and with the number of classes at Depue, a fast moving program is necessary. Perhaps, if we could combine the APBA 175 with the UIM 175, one beach start class will not slow up the program too much. But that will be up to the Mens club, the USTS and the PRO commission agreeing on it.

[wildrunner]

Run Both?

Why don't you run both? 4 heats: 2 with clock on saturday and 2 with jetty on sunday.. This will really level the playing field between EU and NA drivers, equipment and set-ups.... Just a thought!

[Jim McKean]

POWER TRIM for 175cc BEACH START

Hello 175 Drivers;

I have a Brand New, never mounted, POWER TRIM Tower Housing that is SUPER LIGHTWEIGHT. It would be a dream for 175cc World Championships.

I have $2700 Invested, and will sell for only $1195.00

Jim McKean...........captainjimmckean@yahoo.com

[Al Peffley]

My Input

Beach start. For those who want a clock start, put your "big boy" racing pants on and embrace the beach/jetty start like we did with UIM at the Lake Alfred WC's. We had a few "bumps" but no major accidents at those races, if I remember correctly. At least there aren't any submerged alligators to hit, just those stupid [leaping] Asian carp - LOL. The vote here seems to be clearly the majority of PRO class racers would like a beach start. From Wart's post on the Winter Haven Race thread, we know that Atilla's team is planning to be at Depue this year. I would think we would like to attract more international entries to any UIM/APBA World's Cup that we host on our side of the pond.

Al

[WenkeF]

Tim's post is correct.This is why I made the post in the first place. UIM allows both, but a clock start is seldom used. Although I don't expect more than a couple of foreign drivers for the 175, some of the comments about the Lake Alfred race were that we should see how the foreigners would do competitively with a clock start. However, even if we have another multi class UIM race as Lake Alfred, and put in the advance program that all classes would be clock starts, the foreign participation will be poor. I believe a beach start is more entertaining for spectators, but a clock start usually makes the program move faster, and with the number of classes at Depue, a fast moving program is necessary. Perhaps, if we could combine the APBA 175 with the UIM 175, one beach start class will not slow up the program too much. But that will be up to the Mens club, the USTS and the PRO commission agreeing on it.

Hi Ralph,
this is only half of the truth. :-) In UIM §106.01-General Rules for International Championships- is written "No clock start".
Me and the Cremonas won`t be there this year but we wish you all safe racing!

Wenke

[Rex Hall]

Jetty start

If you want the European drivers to show up, it must be a jetty start or they will not come. Everything they do is for a jetty start, they give up top speed for acceleration off the jetty and their props and setups are only for jetty starts. For a truly World Cshampionship it must be jetty start.

[bill van steenwyk]

If you want the European drivers to show up, it must be a jetty start or they will not come. Everything they do is for a jetty start, they give up top speed for acceleration off the jetty and their props and setups are only for jetty starts. For a truly World Cshampionship it must be jetty start.

Since Rex is more closely attuned to European competition as the GRM dealer here in the US, I would not presume to speak to the willingness of those drivers to attend a World Championship here in the US, BUT a true "World Champion" should be able to participate and show their skill, setup ability, and equipment superiority, if they truly have it, on the various type course run ALL OVER THE WORLD. It is obvious from the display put on by the European drivers at Lake Alfred the two races held there the last five years or so, they have their jetty starts down on the money, prop and setup wise, and their skill in those parts of the sport can't be questioned.

Since the late 60's our drivers have gone over there and competed with jetty starts, and their drivers have come here and competed with both clock and jetty starts. Probably the largest contingent of foreign drivers on a continuing basis came to the US in the late 70's time frame when "Baldy Baldwin" was promoting truly international races at Dayton, with attendance by Japanese, German, French, Hungarian, Swedish, and probably some more I have forgotten, and all those participated (and some did very well) with clock starts.

Probably the largest attended, one of the longest running, and one of the most popular as far as money spent and wagered, is the Japanese paramutual racing that the Yamato engines are used for, and all that racing is clock starts. If anyone thinks it takes no skill for a clock start, just look at film or tape of that type racing. Most of the time only inches separate the bows of the boats competing at the starting line.

If this particular competition at DePue this year would attract more participants with a jetty or beach start, then that would seem to be a good way to run it, but to say that if we do not have a jetty or beach start for a race here in the US, it would not be a true WC, is to give all the US drivers who have participated both abroad and here in the US for many years, short shrift and lessens their accomplishments. In this time of a difficult economy, perhaps the start should be determined by the amount of participants each type start would attract.

As previously stated, I (and many others) think the true definition of a "World Champion" is the ability to race in many different conditions and venues, with different size courses and methods of starting, and varied competition. Just like auto, motorcycle, and other type racing, the more varied the competition, when someone wins, especially in an unfamiliar setting,the more indicative of a true champion they are.


Just because it's is different for one set of drivers doesn't make it bad for one bunch or the other, just different, and a true World Champion makes adjustments to "different" situations.

[Al Peffley]

Race Start Method Choice

Listen to Rex and Wenke - Please don't jeopardize a UIM F-175 World's Cup hosted here by running too many PRO classes on the same day. Who would prefer to have an APBA title over a UIM/APBA World title? Sounds like a "no-brainer" decision to me. Seems to me like the stock outboard racing issues (i.e - too many classes being run in one day) are spilling over into the PRO class racing agenda. This deeply concerns me...

Al

[Rex Hall]

Jetty Start

All I am saying is, if you want to have the best of the European drivers here to make it truly a World Championship, you have to run a jetty start. If we run the 175 National Championship with a clock start, why not run the UIM World Championship with a jetty start? This would show how much the drivers can change setups and give us the best of both sanctioning bodies. The European drivers would run the clock start version for our National Championship as well and we can see who really gets the job done.

[raceright]

Since Rex is more closely attuned to European competition as the GRM dealer here in the US, I would not presume to speak to the willingness of those drivers to attend a World Championship here in the US, BUT a true "World Champion" should be able to participate and show their skill, setup ability, and equipment superiority, if they truly have it, on the various type course run ALL OVER THE WORLD. It is obvious from the display put on by the European drivers at Lake Alfred the two races held there the last five years or so, they have their jetty starts down on the money, prop and setup wise, and their skill in those parts of the sport can't be questioned.

Since the late 60's our drivers have gone over there and competed with jetty starts, and their drivers have come here and competed with both clock and jetty starts. Probably the largest contingent of foreign drivers on a continuing basis came to the US in the late 70's time frame when "Baldy Baldwin" was promoting truly international races at Dayton, with attendance by Japanese, German, French, Hungarian, Swedish, and probably some more I have forgotten, and all those participated (and some did very well) with clock starts.

Probably the largest attended, one of the longest running, and one of the most popular as far as money spent and wagered, is the Japanese paramutual racing that the Yamato engines are used for, and all that racing is clock starts. If anyone thinks it takes no skill for a clock start, just look at film or tape of that type racing. Most of the time only inches separate the bows of the boats competing at the starting line.

If this particular competition at DePue this year would attract more participants with a jetty or beach start, then that would seem to be a good way to run it, but to say that if we do not have a jetty or beach start for a race here in the US, it would not be a true WC, is to give all the US drivers who have participated both abroad and here in the US for many years, short shrift and lessens their accomplishments. In this time of a difficult economy, perhaps the start should be determined by the amount of participants each type start would attract.

As previously stated, I (and many others) think the true definition of a "World Champion" is the ability to race in many different conditions and venues, with different size courses and methods of starting, and varied competition. Just like auto, motorcycle, and other type racing, the more varied the competition, when someone wins, especially in an unfamiliar setting,the more indicative of a true champion they are.


Just because it's is different for one set of drivers doesn't make it bad for one bunch or the other, just different, and a true World Champion makes adjustments to "different" situations.

Holly s--- I COMPLETLY AGREE

[bill van steenwyk]

All I am saying is, if you want to have the best of the European drivers here to make it truly a World Championship, you have to run a jetty start. If we run the 175 National Championship with a clock start, why not run the UIM World Championship with a jetty start? This would show how much the drivers can change setups and give us the best of both sanctioning bodies. The European drivers would run the clock start version for our National Championship as well and we can see who really gets the job done.

Rex:

Excellent idea, and exactly the idea and thrust of my previous post. Would be interesting to see if they chose a different style boat and/or prop and setup if they had that choice with a clock start.

Better idea still, make it two heats clock, two heats jetty, and make the boat, motor, prop and setup mandatory to be the same all four heats. That might really prove something.


And another thought:

When statements are made staying "jetty starts HAVE to be run to get the European drivers here", it tends to leave a bad taste in some folks mouth. I don't think you would get very far making that type statement to the Europeans if you were going over there and refused the trip unless clock starts were used, and that was my point. A true World Champion does what is necessary to prove that no matter the conditions in which they compete, they have what it takes to be just that, a World Champion.

Our drivers have a tough time competing in some of the water conditions they race in over there, with our style of boat. Hence the difference in the different styles of boats both we and they have run for years, and one of the reasons why some who have competed over there from here, use their style boat in those circumstances.