Tohatsu 50D2 / Merc 44XS Dyno Data

[ryan_4z]

Hey Ed,

Can you explain this paragraph in English cause I for one have no idea what your talking about. No the Merc 15 did not win squat until two years after or so it was allowed. WE are not talking about the A class were talking about the D class. There is no comparison between the Merc A. the tohatsu does not drop off. the Merc has a little more HP on the top then the tohatsu. Why the hell are you comparing a 4000 dollar A outfit to 10,000 D outfit.
The bottom line is the motor was not produced in quantity, it was not passed around the regions it was not thouroughly tested here. it did not make it on the back of any of our current style boats being run now with the 44. The investment made by the bass brother into this venture was made long before the powerhead came along into lower unit and mid-sections that were being sold to D-mod and Feh drivers not into this "d" engine. so no effort was made to invest in this motor in quantity and supply it readily availalble the only reason I can see this motor was even developed was to try and gain return on their mid-sections and gear-boot manufacturing investments cause they were not selling in any quantity in other parts of racing.

Read between the lines Ed, the guys from the class are telling you it's wrong, the dyno tester is telling you it's wrong, guy from other organizations are telling you it's wrong. but you all still think you are doing the right thing, plus you stabbed the APBA in the back - the organization that you are supposed to be working for with there 20K investment into the 44xs project.

So I do not want to here about A motors, I did not need a restrictor in my motor last year or a height restriction. So until you all came along and screwed up the class for what it was. 3 of my 5 44 deals for this winter there orders have been cancelled as the guys are going to build mods they think if they even run at all. that 3 more new racers that are not going to be at the nationals next year. How many more????? BUT YOU DOING A GREAT SERVICE FOR A CLASS THAT DIDN'T NEED YOUR HELP.

Ditto. Well said Dave.

[pro350hydro]

Way to go guys!

Aren't we trying to promote boat racing? You guys can't even get along. Keep it up, I'm sure your D stock class will grow like wild fire. Wasn't d stock just about dead several years ago? Now people are trying to help save the class and you d stock drivers don't want it?

Some of you need to grow up sooner rather than later.

I hope Dan closes this thread soon. You guys are childesh

[hydroracer25]

The internet is amazing....

...I can read all of this all the way from Brazil. But just as I said that the internet is amazing and a great tool for communication it does have a lot of drawbacks. I've had time to read multiple theads about this subject and others regarding new engines, old engines, parity and so on. Let's face it racing isn't the same as it was 25-35 years ago, but nothing is (ie. communication/email/internet). It's very hard to read into sarcasm, seriousness, or even really know a person from their postings alone. Yes, Hydroracer is a great place for debate and communication, but it can also pi$$ people off, sour there tastes on racing and provide a completely false idea of what boating racing is about.

Bottom line: everyone that races, enjoys this site, participates on the SORC and so forth really wants to see the great family sport that we all enjoy grow so our children be part of it. While I can't say I agree with all that Ryan, Ed, Howard, Dave, Sponsonhead, Neil.....say, they all have a passion for our sport and want to make it better. Obviously we need new engines and can't let the internet let us loose focus of that because without that we won't have anything for our kids to race.

I guess what I'm saying is that until the internet came along, most of the "general racing public" wouldn't know, about any of the stuff that went down and how many topics are created and decided upon at the annual meeting. I've been part of this family for many years now and have been screwed a few times in my racing career about decisions that were made regarding the legality of how things were introduced and submitted and rulings that commissions made, but I'm still here and racing because I love it! I'm not telling Mr. Bass or Mr. Scott to just "get over it", but the need for both of these people is evident, but I find much of this talk discouraging to others who read this site.

Let's face it the D class and others are on a downward slope and the need for engines was yesterday. What's the answer, I don't have it (unlike Ryan ). But let's all just take a step back and breath.

Before I sign off I would like to ask a couple of questions to both Mr. Bass and Mr. Scott.
1) How many engines have each of you sold (not trying to show more favor for Mr. Scott), just want to know how many "new" engines are out there and if possible how many races the owners ran in 2005?

2) Have you delivered any to Michigan where there is a large number of 'D' drivers?

3) Do either of you plan to be at the APBA National meeting in person or with product information?

Obrigado (Thanks),
Mark

[crankbearing]

Ahhh!!!!

Before I sign off I would like to ask a couple of questions to both Mr. Bass and Mr. Scott.
1) How many engines have each of you sold (not trying to show more favor for Mr. Scott), just want to know how many "new" engines are out there and if possible how many races the owners ran in 2005?

2) Have you delivered any to Michigan where there is a large number of 'D' drivers?

3) Do either of you plan to be at the APBA National meeting in person or with product information?

Obrigado (Thanks),
Mark

Hey Mark,

Mark I have delivered 7 motors in total over the last year and half. 8 with Ken W in Michingan. I have to apologize for the delay with Ken's motor. We tried to hook up all summer and either I could not get to the race he was at or vice versa. I will get him his motor soon if I have to drive it to his door.

I Had orders for 5 motors for this winter and when all this started with the two motors in "d" 3 of the orders have been cancelled due to the new drivers being unsure of what they should do for the future, obviously understandable with the issues.

I have motors in WI, PA, CT, and Canada as well I have built all the current running "d's" in Canada over the last two years except for one. The motors have been run at all races in Canada and region 2. except just for plain being to busy is my only excuse for not being at the nationals which would have included 5 of my engines running there.

The motor in PA was delivered at Crystal Lake as well as the motor in CT. They have both tested since then and plan on starting at Franklin in the spring. We have also relocated one of the motors I built last year to a new D hydro racer for next year. That motor did not run last year at all due to health and the loss of my dear friend Ron Collins.

The motor in WI is being used on Steve Johnson's old bezoat and I have asked a couple mid-west drivers to work with this new driver and have not had an update of his progress but he was to test and be ready for the 2006 season. In the midst of this I have proceeded to work on gearcases, gears, driveshafts, throttle assemblies and brackets both for 44XS and 25XS.

At this point I do plan on attending the national meeting. I have several boats to build this winter as well as the fact I have been nominated for the position of CBF president so my duties will certainly increase if voted in and I do welcome that challenge.

I hope that I have answered your questions to your satisfaction Mark and if you have anything further please do not hesitate to ask.

Regards,

[sponsonhead]

Calling the Kettle Black

Telling me to get off of my Ass is jumping down my throat.

Let's see here......

WRONG! Stock outboard has a very rich history.....

And I don't want to hear this sh*t about searching for a motor....

Bullsh*t, unless of course 900+ boats at the Dayton Nats.

If you are saying that I must be on the SORC to have a right to voice my opinion then you totally misunderstand the positive outcome that can come from these public debates.

I don't appreciate the condescending attitude with which you address me. I am not and ignorant, uneducated person, and I will not be addressed as such. Why does it seem that racers from the Northwest love to attack my opinions so much this week?!

(I really like this one: Taking on a whole quarter of the country. You do know how to make friends.)

What the hell are you talking about?!?!......

And you think that telling you to get off your A$$ is jumping down your throat? Gosh, I guess you are a lot more sensitive than your posts indicate.

Oh, and by the way: In my book, my comment doesn't even come close to jumping down your throat. You want throat jumping? Ask Greg Jacobsen. His throat's been jumped down a couple of times by me....

R-19

[brian]

I just don't get it?

I do not own my own 44xs or bass motor but I race 1-3 times a year in the DSH and DSR. My reason for not racing DS is the COST $4500-6000 for the motor alone.

I will have a 44xs in the next year or so and I will buy the 44xs because I race in region 6-7 where the xs is king. I see lots of them. What I do not see is lots of 44xs drivers racing every weekend.

Look at the numbers!!!

DSR
17 drivers 4 raced more than 1-2 weekends!

DSH
43 drivers only 19 raced 3 weekends or more.

Here is what I see. The fastest and most expensive class will protect there investment.

The 44xs drivers have 50 votes for the 44xs and even though it looks like the Bass is going to race next year there will not be 50 for a lone while.

If next year the bass motors rule, I bet the 44x drivers will just vote the bass of the island! Class drives can make the rules. Example make the 44xs foot the only legal motor. Or beter yet a max motor weight. Now that would be sick but funny.

My vote is for the 44xs and let the bass run FE and SE and let them run stock in a new class when they make status. Let them have water with the 44xs until then and let the compitition comm. try to make it work.

All and all this is much to do about nothing.
On a side note I have run the stock bass foot and it does not like 1 inch deep with my smaller props. Deeper equals smaller props not slower speeds, just ask the Masons. Who won FEH deeper than that. Good luck all.

[hshawwpba]

Scott, Bring it on I highly doubt this line of BS! Next you will tell us about a blower system and nitro injection and a parachute to stop you at the end of the straightaway!!!
Plus the Merc D foot wont take the load you are talking about as you know.

[crankbearing]

way too frustrating and not worth it!!

Just carry on as you will. I am building more HP V-6's right now then anything racing anyhow and it does pay the bills. So good luck in your little game I've had enough of it.

[hydroracer25]

Howard

Howard,

This is the kind of sh!t I'm talking about. You are nothing but negativity for this sport and have some 'bass ackwards' views (which of course you are welcome to).

Just the fact that as I said in an earlier post that there is a LOT of crap on this thread that if new racers or even racers from other organizations read can really be miscontruded and paint a bad image in a sport that truly doesn't deserve it!

See if you can answer a few questions for me?
1) what's your tie to Bass Machines and what vested interest do you have in them (since you called Mr. Runne to the carpet)?

2) why are you always on Mr. Scott's a$$? I don't know him personally, but from what I can see HAS done a lot to try to revitalize a class. If you want to do a bunch of mudslinging in your response save it for a PM to me.

3) Do you or will you even race the class with the Bass motor, and if not what the hell is your problem posting a bunch of crap to stir up bad vibes?

Sorry for all my negativity, but being in Brazil for more than a week I look forward to reading good posts and not more BS.

Oh, and try signing your name to an email once and awhile.

Mark