Tohatsu 50D2 / Merc 44XS Dyno Data

[ryan_4z]

Ryan- please attend a couple of National meetings, it just might lower your tone, attitude, opinions (or something). Seriously you need to speak up at the National meetings, (politically it don't mean squat posting here), except raising questions and blood pressure, it needs to be done where you can get results.

PS- if your seriously going to run some day, you may want to bring it down a notch or 2.

Mike

I fully intend to, when I can get the time off of work, until then I will continue to be as loud and vocal as I feel is necessary. If you think I am nothing more than a smug *sshole, well to bad. I will continue to tell you why I am right, until I feel that I have been disproven. And until such a time comes that Dan feels I have gone to far, it is my right to do so. Also, things do get done on this website. This is the most widely used forum for the membership to disuss issues, and make their views known to their commissioners. I am part of that membership, and my views will be heard by all that participate in this forum.

PS- I will not bring it down even 1/2 a notch. Maybe you don't understand the true passion I feel when I speak my mind, but it comes from nothing but my love for this sport.

PSS-I don't appreciate the condescending attitude with which you address me. I am not and ignorant, uneducated person, and I will not be addressed as such. Why does it seem that racers from the Northwest love to attack my opinions so much this week?!

[ryan_4z]

It appears you support the engine you have a stake in for obvious reasons. It appears the good old boy's club that has run the stock division for years maybe finally be in the minority and the door maybe opened to competiion from other engines allowing for advancement instead of the reconstruction of old equipment that is no longer produced by a engine mfg. world wide.
Let's move on and quite whinning.

What the hell are you talking about?!?! My father has nothing at stake with the Hot Rod, or any other motor, other than the ones in our trailer. You want to talk about whining, that is all I hear out of everybody from your region. There is an attitude coming from the entire Northwest that this motor has a god-given right to be part of the D class. Even though all logic based on the evidence available says otherwise.

[ryan_4z]

ASK 4Z he has all the answers.

Well said!!

[mercguy]

What the hell are you talking about?!?! My father has nothing at stake with the Hot Rod, or any other motor, other than the ones in our trailer. You want to talk about whining, that is all I hear out of everybody from your region. There is an attitude coming from the entire Northwest that this motor has a god-given right to be part of the D class. Even though all logic based on the evidence available says otherwise.

Ryan, these Reg10 members also have the largest percentage of DSH drivers in the country, so if anything, you would think they would oppose the Tohatsu motor, not defend it??? At alot of their races, they can have (10) DSH rigs on the water. Hell, 3 of the ones at this years Nat's were from Reg10! Now, if I were them, I would have been pissed, since they comprised 1/3 of the total boat count for DSH!

[ryan_4z]

Ryan, these Reg10 members also have the largest percentage of DSH drivers in the country, so if anything, you would think they would oppose the Tohatsu motor, not defend it??? At alot of their races, they can have (10) DSH rigs on the water. Hell, 3 of the ones at this years Nat's were from Reg10! Now, if I were them, I would have been pissed, since they comprised 1/3 of the total boat count for DSH!

That is certainly not the attitude dispayed by them on this website.

[hydroman6]

That is certainly not the attitude dispayed by them on this website.

THEM?

Think I'm the 5th person to post from Region 10. Two (3 counting me) of the posts had NOTHING to do w/ the actual subject matter of this post. Only ONE is a DSH driver. Should all of the "back there" guys be judged based on your self declaired "educated" coments?

If non-class member votes count, I think they broke the rules by letting this class in.

[ryan_4z]

I apologize, I did not mean to judge everybody in your Region by just a few. But you must understand, I see 4-5 guys jump down my throat, all from that area, that is the way it appeared to me. In addition, before your post, I can't recall anyone from Region 10 having anything but support for this motor.

[hydroman6]

I apologize, I did not mean to judge everybody in your Region by just a few. But you must understand, I see 4-5 guys jump down my throat, all from that area, that is the way it appeared to me. In addition, before your post, I can't recall anyone from Region 10 having anything but support for this motor.

I find it ironic, that aparently, spirited debate by Mr. Gleason is "jumping down your throat", while your own posts, replete with colorful (and censored) adjectives are to be taken as passionate and caring coments. No doubt they are, but you are not the only passionate person with an opinion, and no one I've ever met is omnicient. We learn by trial & error....and listening. Ideally without getting offended.

I did not previously offer an opinion on the new motor. Personally, I believe it's probably more of an FE motor, and with the current restrictions, I don't think many will bother to mess with it.

My point was that we have a Rule Book. I know Sid personally, and understang very well what he is trying to do, but as someone has stated before me, We DID NOT follow the rules.

I haven't talked this much in a long time
I'm DONE

[14-H]

***
I would like to see the test of the merc A vs the OMC a comapred, after all we were told the merc A motor was compatable to the OMC and on the water is was a disaster! Those so call experts were wrong then and they could be wrong now!

I'll bet my copy of Animal House that the Tohatsu vs. Merc turns out the same way and we have to restrict the 44 to allow the Tohatsu to be competitive.

Howard: it's interesting how often we agree. Ed.

[14-H]

Well I sure hope your right ****
Regards,

Dave: the similarities between the performance comparisons for the Merc A and OMC and the Tohatsu and Merc 44 are striking. Everyone thought the Merc 15 would wax the 13 cu.in. OMC. In fact, however, it never came close. Despite it's larger displacement, the Merc 15 has a much lower RPM hp/torque advantage but it tops off before its competitor, the OMC, just like the Tohatsu compared to the Merc44. If you guys want something to worry about, worry about a height restriction or restrictor plate for the 44, 'cause I'll bet that's what'll be necessary for parity. Ed.

By the way: this is where engineering and reality part ways.

[14-H]

*** but as someone has stated before me, We DID NOT follow the rules.

I haven't talked this much in a long time
I'm DONE

You don't get off that easily! How were the rules not followed? This motor has been on probation for the last two years and now it's subject to a parity committee, for God's sake. Not following the rules????

[ricochet112]

Don't know what that means, is that yer real name? all i can say is turn yer head around , if yer' careful ya' jus' may get older.

I have seen you post on other sites, you CAN write complete sentences, AND spell....your posts are hilarious.

"rikosheti"

[ricochet112]

I WAS being sincere

I fully intend to, when I can get the time off of work, until then I will continue to be as loud and vocal as I feel is necessary. If you think I am nothing more than a smug *sshole, well to bad. I will continue to tell you why I am right, until I feel that I have been disproven. And until such a time comes that Dan feels I have gone to far, it is my right to do so. Also, things do get done on this website. This is the most widely used forum for the membership to disuss issues, and make their views known to their commissioners. I am part of that membership, and my views will be heard by all that participate in this forum.

PS- I will not bring it down even 1/2 a notch. Maybe you don't understand the true passion I feel when I speak my mind, but it comes from nothing but my love for this sport.

PSS-I don't appreciate the condescending attitude with which you address me. I am not and ignorant, uneducated person, and I will not be addressed as such. Why does it seem that racers from the Northwest love to attack my opinions so much this week?!

I was actually being quite serious and sincere...you have gone past passionate (imho).

I NEVER called you any names or was condescending at all, maybe being on the defensive all of the time.....

I have attended 3 National meetings and I know from experience that they wear you out mentally and physically.

If you are that passionate about APBA, then taking time off work to attend a National meeting would be AS important as going to a race. PLEASE attend one soon.

In my 21 years of racing I have voted in EVERY election !

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS

Mike

PS, who's going to make the restrictor plates for the "D" class?????

[crankbearing]

Dave: the similarities between the performance comparisons for the Merc A and OMC and the Tohatsu and Merc 44 are striking. Everyone thought the Merc 15 would wax the 13 cu.in. OMC. In fact, however, it never came close. Despite it's larger displacement, the Merc 15 has a much lower RPM hp/torque advantage but it tops off before its competitor, the OMC, just like the Tohatsu compared to the Merc44. If you guys want something to worry about, worry about a height restriction or restrictor plate for the 44, 'cause I'll bet that's what'll be necessary for parity. Ed.

By the way: this is where engineering and reality part ways.

Hey Ed,

Can you explain this paragraph in English cause I for one have no idea what your talking about. No the Merc 15 did not win squat until two years after or so it was allowed. WE are not talking about the A class were talking about the D class. There is no comparison between the Merc A. the tohatsu does not drop off. the Merc has a little more HP on the top then the tohatsu. Why the hell are you comparing a 4000 dollar A outfit to 10,000 D outfit.
The bottom line is the motor was not produced in quantity, it was not passed around the regions it was not thouroughly tested here. it did not make it on the back of any of our current style boats being run now with the 44. The investment made by the bass brother into this venture was made long before the powerhead came along into lower unit and mid-sections that were being sold to D-mod and Feh drivers not into this "d" engine. so no effort was made to invest in this motor in quantity and supply it readily availalble the only reason I can see this motor was even developed was to try and gain return on their mid-sections and gear-boot manufacturing investments cause they were not selling in any quantity in other parts of racing.

Read between the lines Ed, the guys from the class are telling you it's wrong, the dyno tester is telling you it's wrong, guy from other organizations are telling you it's wrong. but you all still think you are doing the right thing, plus you stabbed the APBA in the back - the organization that you are supposed to be working for with there 20K investment into the 44xs project.

So I do not want to here about A motors, I did not need a restrictor in my motor last year or a height restriction. So until you all came along and screwed up the class for what it was. 3 of my 5 44 deals for this winter there orders have been cancelled as the guys are going to build mods they think if they even run at all. that 3 more new racers that are not going to be at the nationals next year. How many more????? BUT YOU DOING A GREAT SERVICE FOR A CLASS THAT DIDN'T NEED YOUR HELP.

[ryan_4z]

I find it ironic, that aparently, spirited debate by Mr. Gleason is "jumping down your throat", while your own posts, replete with colorful (and censored) adjectives are to be taken as passionate and caring coments.

Telling me to get off of my Ass is jumping down my throat.