Tohatsu 50D2 / Merc 44XS Dyno Data

[ricochet112]

Motor Pricing

I talked to Ron a while ago and he said the new "B" would be about 4K?!!!!??
Has anyone heard anything different?
With that kind of $ I'll get 90 lbs of lead and pay 5K for an engine to go race a D!!
In the mean time I'll have to stick with my (SLOWER than a 102) 302 for OSY and C.

112R

[Dr. Thunder]

The status quo in stock is a mess for new people coming in. If I had more mechanical aptitude and a chance to do it over, we'd have gone PRO.

So, the idea I have for my two grandsons (11 & 9) ...to put them in new Sorensen Jackals and RaceCraft hydros with new Mercs ... would not be a good one?

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

APBA races in the west

Are ther any , as per kneeldowns?
NBRA has moved into that area, i think.
Any help here!!!
RichardKCMo

[ricochet112]

What???

Richard, I will ask for everyone, HUH?

Could you be more specific with your confusion please.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Pics/motrs/pics?

So what the hell IS a reasonable price for an OMC A? The last price I heard for a DiFebo (the fastest s*** available in some opinions) this summer was $2,600 sans gearfoot - add $950 for the gearfoot and it's a $3,500+ motor.

So you'd think someone could sell one that's a little more than half as fast for $2,000? Hell no! Can't even sell it for $1,800. And it's ready to run. I spent money on two "name" A motors, and it looks like I'll lose my ass selling both of them. Pricing on A s*** is all screwed up - that's why we run C now.

The status quo in stock is a mess for new people coming in. If I had more mechanical aptitude and a chance to do it over, we'd have gone PRO.

Some just are just not equal, don't know who wrote the rules.
Don't know if that would be a real good idea , cause that seems like a life style. Hard to change , decisions, etc. etc..
RichardKCMo

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Hey richochetty?

Don't know what that means, is that yer real name? all i can say is turn yer head around , if yer' careful ya' jus' may get older.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Fergot 'bout Rich'say

I seem to have forgottin that there are some litewates and others are allowed to make these decisions for the rest yous guys.

Go baCK TO ABOUT 1960 in the old Apba rule book, and then take a giant leap. Diane will help you.

It has to stop somewhere.

I heat with wood.
RicardF

[mercguy]

huh???????

Are ther any , as per kneeldowns?
NBRA has moved into that area, i think.
Any help here!!!
RichardKCMo

I do not understand what yer saying either Richard? What "West" are you refering too? No NBRA out here.....

[hshawwpba]

tohatsu vs merc.

What the heck is wrong with this picture. when you have the guy who is dyno testing the motor and has a professional career in designing and engineering outboard motors tell you the motor should be in another class and you do not listen. Oh my God !!!!! I cannot believe we are even considering this. Did you all even read this report!!!

Regards,

Remember dyno power is not always the same on water as in the test bench. It's time to upgrade the D class to new equipment that is avaialble for all racers to purchase without having to invest in reengineered copies of an obsolete motor.
I personally think the D class wili have growth due to the new motor and the stock commission has shown good judgement in this effort.
Remember the improvments that are noted in the testing are changes from the stock design of the engine. The timing bar adjustment can be controlled, the jet size can be controlled and inspected. The commission can and should control this motor for parity, but if you apply the same what ifs to the merc. alot of the current engines would be considered none stock!
I would like to see the test of the merc A vs the OMC a comapred, after all we were told the merc A motor was compatable to the OMC and on the water is was a disaster! Those so call experts were wrong then and they could be wrong now!

[bill boyes]

So what the hell IS a reasonable price for an OMC A? The last price I heard for a DiFebo (the fastest s*** available in some opinions) this summer was $2,600 sans gearfoot - add $950 for the gearfoot and it's a $3,500+ motor.

So you'd think someone could sell one that's a little more than half as fast for $2,000? Hell no! Can't even sell it for $1,800. And it's ready to run. I spent money on two "name" A motors, and it looks like I'll lose my ass selling both of them. Pricing on A s*** is all screwed up - that's why we run C now.

The status quo in stock is a mess for new people coming in. If I had more mechanical aptitude and a chance to do it over, we'd have gone PRO.

ASK 4Z he has all the answers.

[hshawwpba]

Tohatsu Hot Rod, where is your bread buttered?

Daren, I guess I don't go back as far as you, but the only time I remember Merc & OMC race against each other in stock outboard was 1972/73 in 25SS. We used to have an OMC powerhead adapted to a Merc "A" quicksilver tower & foot. Mercury put the kabash on that fast, they did not want to race against the OMC. I could be wrong but I'm not. The old Chevy/Ford debate? Open up your wallet. Every time one team makes advances theother team screams foul. Next thing you know the rules change and the everybody is spending more money to keep up. That may be acceptable at that level but it's going to wipe us out. Rules changing year after year giving one motor the advantage this year the other motor the advantage the next and a competition commitee deciding who the winners will be. As for new available motors now? We are in a transition period with many of our classes.In with the new out with the old. Making the transition smoothe without a finite "PLAN FOR THE FUTURE" I'll agree will not work. I am not against Mr.Bass or the Tohatsu. Take the individuals out of the discussion. I believe that powerhead racing is very much part of our future, we all know big factories are not going to produce complete motors for us. Do you remember about three years ago the SORC invested 22,000 dollars in the Merc D tower housing? Maybe we should actually make use of that investment, who knows maybe some day we'll be able to offer drivers an inexpensive tower to put their new racing powerhead on. HEY, we might even get our money back some day. What about the commitment we (SORC) made to Mr. Scott. He was willing to take on the "D Revitalization" project. We support that effort and investment how? One year later we arbitrarily approve a motor to compete against our own investment.By the way, the 44xs project has made progress in spite of our mutiny. If we really support this effort we will have growth. What makes you think the SORC (which can change hands every year) won't turn its collective back on the Bass project? Two or three votes could make a huge difference as many votes are not strong majorities. Again a future without a finite plan is very unstable. As far as Hot Rod is concerned. Last year Hot Rod came to us with a plan, a five year plan for their companyand expectations of what they will do, as well as things they would expect out of the SORC. We agreed to and adopted that plan. To date they have done everything they said they would do. We have a real oppurtunity to solve our supply problem for years to come. The success of Hot Rod depends on the growth of our sport and how we make this happen is being debated right here right now. These discussions are helping us define our future and must continue. Next. Mr. Weinandt's experience in evaluating dyno-test results in relationship to competition is impeccable. Do you know why this dyno comparison was done in the first place? I didn't think so. Many of the people that we consider the best technical minds in our sport were able to determine, just by the spec. sheets that this motor would be able to dominate the D class in a very short time frame. We knew it last year, but it needed to be verified. And it was. These two motors do not belong in the same class. We are not eliminating the D class. We are( or should be) promoting the D class. The SORC did not encourage anybody to produce a "new" D motor, that was Mr. Bass' decision. As far as I'm concerned we were already addressing the D problem. The membership told us motor availability was the problem and thanks to Mr. Scott the The class will slowly grow.As far as negativity, there is none, there are just differing opinions. I expect both sides to be passionate.
Mr. Sponsonhead, Eventually the 102 will be obsoleted by the 302. When the time is right. Yamato made these motors very compatable, the 102 has a fifteen year headstart but the 302's are getting real close. Point being currently either motor is a decent investment. The OMC's and the mercs will eventually be replaced with the new A Hot Rod. The older motors will be phased out so we can support a manufacturer that is supporting us. 25SSR - The yamato was only put in there to bolster a dead class. It was a mistake, one made do to a lack of proper planning and trying to keep a couple of drivers happy. Not a good strategy for building a sport. Nothing is black and white. That's the problem. Too much grey area, not enough grey matter. If it takes you as long to read this, as it did for me to type it (with one finger) I'll have exacted my revenge! Your shot.
John Runne 2-Z

It appears you support the engine you have a stake in for obvious reasons. It appears the good old boy's club that has run the stock division for years maybe finally be in the minority and the door maybe opened to competiion from other engines allowing for advancement instead of the reconstruction of old equipment that is no longer produced by a engine mfg. world wide.
Let's move on and quite whinning.

[crankbearing]

you really think so!!!

Remember dyno power is not always the same on water as in the test bench. It's time to upgrade the D class to new equipment that is avaialble for all racers to purchase without having to invest in reengineered copies of an obsolete motor.
I personally think the D class wili have growth due to the new motor and the stock commission has shown good judgement in this effort.
Remember the improvments that are noted in the testing are changes from the stock design of the engine. The timing bar adjustment can be controlled, the jet size can be controlled and inspected. The commission can and should control this motor for parity, but if you apply the same what ifs to the merc. alot of the current engines would be considered none stock!
I would like to see the test of the merc A vs the OMC a comapred, after all we were told the merc A motor was compatable to the OMC and on the water is was a disaster! Those so call experts were wrong then and they could be wrong now!

Well I sure hope your right for what I am being told by several "d" hydro racers is that when this motor starts winning (if it does) they are going mod racing only. So I hope they sell at least 12. Dyno results or not, c'mon the motor has been run and is being run in other organizations and is on par against three cylinder OMC's. this motor in the yamaha form was tested in 95 or so on a 44 housing and gearboot and went 90+ on gps.

So!!! now then, what you are telling me is that if I show up at the convention with a four stroke fuel injected powerhead mounted to 44XS housing and gearboot WHICH ARE AVAILABLE, and mounted on a newly produced tuner plate. I will get probationary approval and then I will only race it in one region for the next twelve months, BUT because it is new and has parts available and I can guarantee you I will come up with a CAM grind that will produce more torque than both the 44xs and the tohatsu that it will get put through and approved for the next season as an approved DSH motor. Not too mention I will be hooked up to the motor via remote/laptop from the shore line that will allow my crew to adjust timing and fuel while I am in that heat.

I can certainly move ahead with this as I have been talking with manufacturers about just this for the last 6 months. There are many that would like to see their 4 stroke powerheads in racing....

Regards,

[DougMc]

Attached is the complete "official" report from MERC / TOHATSU Dyno Test. This is some good reading.....Enjoy!

909 views on this thread; however, only 99 down loads of the report.

[mercguy]

909 views on this thread; however, only 99 down loads of the report.

not everyone has the "Microsoft Word" program on their computer........

[ryan_4z]

So what the hell IS a reasonable price for an OMC A? The last price I heard for a DiFebo (the fastest s*** available in some opinions) this summer was $2,600 sans gearfoot - add $950 for the gearfoot and it's a $3,500+ motor.

So you'd think someone could sell one that's a little more than half as fast for $2,000? Hell no! Can't even sell it for $1,800. And it's ready to run. I spent money on two "name" A motors, and it looks like I'll lose my ass selling both of them. Pricing on A s*** is all screwed up - that's why we run C now.

The status quo in stock is a mess for new people coming in. If I had more mechanical aptitude and a chance to do it over, we'd have gone PRO.

Kevin Ladd's OMC A motor was just purchased, with gearfoot, ready to race, for I think 2200 dollars. That is not an unreasonable price for a motor that can win any race in the country.