Dsh ??

[bh/]

I am considering selling some of my old Merc D equipment and getting a new Tohatsu for DSH.
Some research into the current rules has me worried, from both a safety, and long term class viability point of view.
The manufacturer, Bass, on their web site say this;

"Lower Unit Depth Is Critical On A Hydroplane.....
....Running the Lower Unit more that ¼-inch below the bottom running surface on a hydroplane has been shown to cause an unstable condition. The Lower Unit seeks to ride on the surface and lifts the back of the boat in an unstable manner...... Racing under APBA D-stock Hydro rules requires the Lower Unit to be set at more than ¼-inch below the bottom running surface on a hydro plane. NBRA, AOF, and APBA D-Mod do not have Lower Unit height restrictions on the hydro".

Current APBA rules require that Tohatsu's run 1/2" or more below the true boat bottom, in contradiction to the mfg's recommendation.
APBA would appear to be on shaky legal ground here.
Consider that K&K pulled the insurance form the inboards when the ACHA proposed putting 6l engines in 5l boats, contrary to the mfg's recommendations. I wonder what their stance is here?

Not having ever been in a Tohatsu DSH, I make no claims as to knowing
the answer, but I was unaware until recently of the direct technical conflict
between APBA and Bass.

If the bottom line issue is actual parity between 44xs and Tohatsu, then rather than play with items that affect handing and stability at speed,
would not handicaping the boat with weight be safer ?
Over time a heavier boat will be larger, stronger, and likely safer.

So for the meantime, I will sit back and watch

,

[TPLACE31]

Oh Boy!

Brian, we just got the Mad Russian under control and you had to make this post ..........

[bh/]

Steve; I pray no Russians get further 'out of control' on my account.
I thought I was just being 'prudent'

[propnuts]

This is just my opinion

I think the Bass claim is quite overblown, and was made in an attempt to influence the SORC decision making when it came to determing height for that motor. We have run MANY heats at the 1/2" and I don't see it as being unstable or a problem. Ignore the Bass brothers and buy a motor from them would be my recommendation. Hopefully Dave, Troy and others will weigh in.

[mercguy]

I think the Bass claim is quite overblown, and was made in an attempt to influence the SORC decision making when it came to determing height for that motor. We have run MANY heats at the 1/2" and I don't see it as being unstable or a problem. Ignore the Bass brothers and buy a motor from them would be my recommendation. Hopefully Dave, Troy and others will weigh in.

until YOU run one personally, maybe you should not comment (said politely)!!!!! There are some handling issues one has to overcome (boat design, setup, props)!!! I am pretty sure the Bass Bros are more knowledgeable of their product than you are!!!!! I won't go back into the age-old argument on the subject.


Brian, buy a Bass Tohatsu.........you will love it!!!! If you have any questions about the motor, feel free to email or PM and get the facts and answers from a Bass Tohatsu owner!!!!

[99R]

Buy one you'll love it!!!!! I think I've put more heats on one than anybody. Sid Bass is first class to work with!!!


99R

[proprider]

Sid Bass is first class to work with!!!

Sid Bass is first class to work with!!!

I agree with this statement...and I'm a Mercury owner/driver!
Joe Schweickert 2-H

[Dave M]

Some Prudent Research

This is not of a Tohatsu, but with a Bass Gearcase.

I ran a Bass gearcase under my 850CCMH (SEH) in Mod a few years ago. I had a real handling issue at the depths we run the the props. Yes, it is more than a 1/4". Sid worked with me for a while and we worked it out to handle very well under the rig. We had to change a few things. I never raced the set-up until the handling issue was fixed. I can honestly say the results could have been death by broaching in a straight-a-away. And it broached right. I saved it while testing, what would have happened if it was race water ?

So if Sid says it is not safe, you dam well better listen and fix the rules. Where is the safety committee when it really matters ? They want us to recertify our kevlar to protect ourselves from them.........

[larry terzinski]

Fix it

All we here is BASS-BASS-BASS. I know of 44xs drivers that do not run at 0.
In fact they are fairly deep. Pro drivers i believe are not at 0. Not hearing
complaints out of there cases if they run high or low. If Sid says it's not safe
then you have a problem. FIX THE CASES!!!!!!

[26V]

So Dave what did it take to make the BASS foot usable under your SE? was it setup? Prop? Foot changes? or a combination? that info could be very importante to someone running the BASS lower unit.

[guedo499]

I love these conversations!

I have 3 Merc 44xs motors.

The only reason that I went with a Merc for DSH is that I bought my first one at a DEEP discount. I got into a wreck at the end of last year (Tohatsu hit a Merc, not joking) and I've spent almost $1800 to weld my front case, lower unit and recoil back together: that's just welding. Sure I could have found something in the wrecking yard, Mercury made several hundred of thousands of these motors, parts are everywhere, but there's something nice about being able to buy something new.

If I were to start in DSH today, I would go with a Tohatsu, no question.

I look up to Bob Wartinger quite a bit. While testing for Bass the complete Tohatsu setup, Bob's comments were that the ride was much better above 1/2", not below; that's all I had to hear to convince me what was what.

I believe in the future, the height rule will be changed to level for the Tohatsu, just like the Merc in DSH, and most of the Tohatsu guys will run around 3/8"-1/4" below the bottom just like us Merc guys do.

These is to be taken as commentary of the quality equipment Bass puts out and for that equipment, replacement parts are readily available.

[dwestby]

All we here is BASS-BASS-BASS. I know of 44xs drivers that do not run at 0.
In fact they are fairly deep. Pro drivers i believe are not at 0. Not hearing
complaints out of there cases if they run high or low. If Sid says it's not safe
then you have a problem. FIX THE CASES!!!!!!

I have ran the Bass gear case on all of my boats for years. It depend on the type of hull and prop set-up. I have ran them deep up to above the bottom and even with little or no problem. I question your post would it be alot cheaper to just let us run at any height that work best for our set-up than change the design and wait for two year to get everyone to approve it for DSH. I waited for what 3 + months for the parity comm to make a rule on height approved at the Nation Meeting this year and have to wait till after Wakefield to approve of reject the height recomadation . Change the rule is cheaper that changing to gear case. But what do I know I just own the outfit. dennis westby

[Dave M]

Well

So Dave what did it take to make the BASS foot usable under your SE? was it setup? Prop? Foot changes? or a combination? that info could be very importante to someone running the BASS lower unit.

I added a nose cone to the front, and took some material off here and there. I basically took the lift out of the gearbox. Upon Sid's recommendations I also moved the engine back 8 inches. No small task for a three holer. That did not work, so we tried this approach.

Like another one said, it depends a lot on your hull. What Bob W. said worked for that particular rig, not everyone else’s. There needs to be more objectivity in this.

If raising the prop shaft heights is a cure for handling the DSH, then it needs to be done and done effective right now. If this puts the mercs at a speed disadvantage, restrict the Tohotsu someplace else. Can you imagine if someone running one at the current regulated heights as mandated by APBA and they end up dead or badly injured ? Talk about opening yourself up to a lawsuit. No wonder the insurance cost so much, all the insurance people have to do is simply read the rule book. Even a mediocre lawyer should be able to win that lawsuit.

[26V]

Thanks Dave,
this is a very interesting discussion.

[ram95]

Arbitrary rules

I think the Bass claim is quite overblown, and was made in an attempt to influence the SORC decision making when it came to determing height for that motor. We have run MANY heats at the 1/2" and I don't see it as being unstable or a problem. Ignore the Bass brothers and buy a motor from them would be my recommendation. Hopefully Dave, Troy and others will weigh in.

The point is this: The 1/2" restriction is a totally arbitrary dimension. There is absolutely NO foundation of support for it. So, with that in mind, a person ought to be able to set his/her engine where it runs best on their boat.

We all must refrain from imposing restraints just because WE think it's a good idea. In the meantime, WE can impose all the restraints on ourselves which we feel good about.

Alex