Silencers

[Dave M]

There is some talk of silencers from the Thread about Lake Alfred. I thought I might bring this to this thread, as the tech heads might need some things to talk about.

1. Can we silence the open megaphone style pipes easily and without affecting performance ?

2. How ?

3. Keep it cheap because Mod guys are cheap. (Me especially)

4. Is there some bolt on extension that does not add much weight to the end of the already brittle Bayer/Parker/Hustler/ etc.... elbows so it does not break these ?

I think if we made the Mod motors a little quieter we may be able to race in some more locations. I for one LOVE the sound of a screaming 44 (D) when it is running right through the Bayer pipes. Just my opinion on that. It is sweet music, but I also understand that others don't share my passion.

What can we do about this ? Anyone have some ideas or experience ?

[Steve Johnson]

Mike F tried supertrap cone plates during the early 90's ,on a wiendant 44 The motor ran but was painfully worse all around. Gotta give him credit for trying tho. If we decide to go this route everyone needs to be quiet. A huge advantage to open Megs.
side note: was a pair of chambers running on a hydro last season. I noticed a difference between them and an open stacks
Finally: we have a race site up here that opc races on , some vocal residents are opposed to any noise,so we don't race there, I don't think opc has very long for this spot either, Point being, some folks you just won't please and when they finailly complain long enough your done for anyway... so why bother.


Steve 77-G

[Ken Fleming]

silencers

There got to be a way to quiet them if thats what is needed i too prefer open but snowmobiles can produce some big hp numbers and still be reletively quiet. And yes i know some of the motors don't like pipes very much but with enough experimentation something should be able to made and work.

[Dave M]

Chambers.

Simple theory on cross-scavenged engines indicates that chambers won't work. I am not saying that they can't be used, but it will not allow the engine to perform to the max. When you put chambers on as the only pipe allowed you run into a cost factor, who has the most money to put into development of the set of pipes that work ? Then once they find this they usually don't share the technology. It is also hard to get chambers to work on different motors that are ported the same in cross-scavenged. Bob Goller had one of the fastest C Mod Mercs in the world with a set of chambers on it, I know he had a duplicate set of chambers made and they did not perform well at all. So that leads me to shy away from chambers unless we set rules on them, make everyone run the same chamber...

[fitsracing]

Simple theory on cross-scavenged engines indicates that chambers won't work. I am not saying that they can't be used, but it will not allow the engine to perform to the max. When you put chambers on as the only pipe allowed you run into a cost factor, who has the most money to put into development of the set of pipes that work ? Then once they find this they usually don't share the technology. It is also hard to get chambers to work on different motors that are ported the same in cross-scavenged. Bob Goller had one of the fastest C Mod Mercs in the world with a set of chambers on it, I know he had a duplicate set of chambers made and they did not perform well at all. So that leads me to shy away from chambers unless we set rules on them, make everyone run the same chamber...

Could I ask who wrote the theory that chambers won't work on cross scavenged engines? From what I've read and been told this is not true.

Also if the theory states chambers won't work, how did Goller get them to work and don't forget Steve Dunn who I believe uses chanbers on a Merc D.

[Bill Blackwell]

About 10 years ago Bob Montoya had a "can" that he added to each open pipe on his open megaphones. These did reduce the noise significantly, while still having a nice sound. They did not affect performance in a bad way. These cans were essentially a cylindrical shape with a flat endcap. The end cap had holes in it for the exhaust. They were light and did not add to the elbow failing. They reduced noise and were quite easy to fabricate. I can't remember how they were attached.

Without getting into the debate about chambers, these add on's did what they were designed to do, lower the db of these open stacks. I would say that if these deflector engines could benefit from a tuned exhuast, one could experiment with the length of the can to get a bounce or pulse from them.

As far as engine noise at race sites goes, I'm the race chairman for the Cullaby Lake event each year on the Oregon Coast. The county is really leaning on us hard about noise. I want to keep inviting the D Mods, but unless we get a solution to the noise, it won't be long before I can't include that class on the circular.

Bill Blackwell

[Dave M]

The Cans

Those cans sound like a viable option. That is the kind of info I am looking for. Cheap, easy and nobody has to do all the R&D on chambers, keep the design hidden for years so they dominate until the motor blows, build another motor only to discover the chambers don't work as well.

Can anyone get me more info on those cans ? Please ?

I think chambers will work on any D Mod, just not peak performance on a cross-scavenged engine. Loopers, LOOK OUT, Loopers love em. Some folks have the combo figured out, but to market those pipes to eveyone??? I don't see that happening. It is so hard to duplicate those, and someone else’s engine might have the wrong porting to run those. I am not saying they won't work, they just won't work for our applications all that easily and keep it affordable, available, and most of all, not affect performance. I am not saying outlaw chambers, they are fine for those that want to monkey with them, but the fast D mods are already running in the low 90's with megaphones, and they have awesome punch. So if we have a cheap and easy can solution to quiet them, why would anyone not want to do this ? Test anywhere then !! That is our major downfall with our D Mod's, we only test while we race..... it sucks. We know we have more speed, but where do we go to find it ?

Again, I ask someone who has some knowledge about these cans to email me the specs or something; I think we need to consider something to quiet them down. I will miss this noise terribly....................

[epugh66]

Dave,
I was thinking Sam LaBanco made a "can" like that for the two cylinder mods years ago.

[Howie Nichols]

LaBanco's email

Sam's email is samsst60@yahoo.com

[dwestby]

Only a nickel worth

I have read this thread and I am in a cloud. Before you all start spending some of my money on making thing sound like a konny or what every. (1) what deciable reading do local agenice want. (2) How do they want it measured hopefully parallel to the shorline. Before you all get in a panic I would first find what they , who every they are, and what they want. Do some testing at a race site with a decialble meter at a 150 feet parellel to the shore lind under full power and not getting on plane with your axxxxx facing the meter. I had to do this in the 1980 and you might be surprised, it was the last time it was brought up and we help by letting the bigger classes then f hydro now 1100 pro run later in the day. american made stuff back in those days. Check local law on noise, check dirt bikes pleasure boat with thur hull exhaust of stacks manufacturing plant rules and compare kept track record. check your local stock car track where every there is people and noise. Testing are you nut if are running in the 90 mph without a crash boat and ambulance. I owned the snail FEH and own the turtle FER and have went out with a pickup boat to break and engine in but never in your wetest dream would be run of 80 in a short spurt without a amblance on the shore. this year we drove 265 mile to race another class and took the turtle along to test it a yelm knowing there would be a class. BE safe not stupid water hurts at 65mph and gets even harder at 90. that about a nickel worth. I am thick skinned so have at it. the spud

[hydroplay]

Sam LaBanco did make a can-type system for A/B HotRods. I had one of the first and it worked great when we put it on a stock 15SS to run A Mod at the Nationals in North Liberty Iowa in 1981. I thought I was fast enough to win with it but crashed. I think Sam had a straight section after the megaphone and the can slipped over it so he could adjust the length. Production versions were welded at that length. We tried the same set up on a stock B HotRod and it was terrible. We took the megaphone/can off the elbow assembly and it ran great. Anything we tried beyond the elbow made the B run worse, tried a variety of plain megaphones and even straight sections of pipes.

[Dave M]

RE: Nickles Worth

dwestby,

Our decibal max in MI around here is something like 9 I think. I got a decibal meter and have not had a chance to do anything yet. In MI you have to take the reading at water level at the lowest possible RPM the engine will run at. It does not count when planing or on plane. I think we can pass already, but we have lost several race sites in Michigan alone due to noise complaints. The chambers nobody complains about, so to make it easy I was looking for a easy cheap bolt on application. If it works, and it can be readily available to the general racing community, I plan to make this into a proposal before the mod commission. Rest assured, I am one that thinks the noise complaints are a few bad apples that ruin the bunch, but the DNR around here listen to the few bad apples. I do go to the local dirt track to watch my favorite auto sport, Sprint Cars. They are noiser than hell, but they have a curfew, and they do not race ALL day long. And most tha tlive near the tracks accepted the fact before they bought the house.....

[dwestby]

just think before you act.

back in the last 1990. a group of good to do racer though SJ a stock tunnel boat class running inline 6 mer would be safer if they and the SSt 120 then the V six all had to run a capsule tunnell,, there where ten boat at one time in montana. It was a step adjustment I believe in two years next year there not even enough boat for a start, killed the class. Look at 500- 700- 1100 pro classes If we the racers keep putting requirement on ourself without data to support these changes the few will be none. If the speed in FEH keep raising like I see them and am into the idea you race as fast and safe as you can and get out of the idea of going for a boat ride which makes me sick to my gut some old racer or new racer will have us all in a shell because it is safer????? and looks cool. If we as racers get the public interested in what we do it is a lot easyier to make noise and race racer for years have raced to race and said the he## with the general public. we race class after class that all look the same and have the same boat running four or five classess. In the old be for light we had a-b mer- c mer-d mer and model 80 and J for stock classes all look different and most driver did not run model 80 in b-c-d- classes there was a different now they all look the same. and run god only how many different classes. I we keep making adjustment in the rules before we have to we I believe will kill the sport and we can sit back a bench race which is not a bad thing if you can race and just want to go for that ride. I own and have test the Mod feh/fer because it was less restritive and feel that the real racers with a budget could be competive and get away from the boat racers tongue in check that want to go for a ride and be cool and wear the jacket and helmet. blood presure is getting high try not to destroy what we have with the data to support what you are doing first i have seen got idea destroy and turn into a nightmare fast that you think been there and do want to go back there. I quite for 18 years and got back into this comp sport, maybe iI should have stay away I see us going down that same road again did not like the view at the end of the tunnel then and do like the look i am getting now just my thought to old to make a differents o well I will damm if I speak out.. Ron Hill is racing better now than in the 1970 is it more competive across the board and easier for the public to understand or is my brain turning to dust. the spud

[Dave M]

Okay

Okay Mr. Spud, I am trying to do the research by using this public forum to gather some data and then act on it. So far I have gotten several suggestions, which is what I was mainly looking for. I stress in my posts that this needs to be cheap and easy, because I agree with you to an extent. Trust me when I tell you I am not trying to limit you in anything you do, this is why in the Mod category you can vote your opinion on any changes to your class. If you don't want the change, you can lobby to your fellow competitors to have the change voted down. This way the majority rules, and everyone can be happy.

If the thought of leaving the sport simply because the laws here in the Midwest are getting tougher to pull permits to race and someone is actually acting on this to try and change and help the sport grow, then maybe you should re-think priorities. I want to race, no matter what, and I want the opportunity to race close to home a lot. This is a way I might be able to do this. That is my reasoning around this. I know out west some of the places they race at are out in the middle of nowhere. Wouldn't you like to race in front of a crowd close to town or in town ? If they love the noise, great, I love it to, but I also want to race.

[dwestby]

maybe this well help

mr Dan the spud stands for Spokane Prolelle & dock I will try to keep this short. I think I understand where or why this is important to you and other in the Midwest. But I believe with out moise most sport would die off except for chess - checkers- and maybe horeshoes. Stander are different in all states I understand but you or others try to make rules or guideline on a nation level it effect us all. If you have ever been to Shadow Clife in Pleasant Cal. they race stack D mod and FE mod. The race site is close to population not in the desert. At Yelm this year the race was slow down for a wedding we the driver and owner adjusted to that no problem . the poor guy should have been a boat racer but that his problem. We in Washington if you have never been out here is a beautful part of the county as Mich been though but never spent much time there. Out west we have cowboy Indian ( feather not dot) aryans and alot of other american who enjoy the sport if the know what is going on. I am not busting you bal-- but if can help I am more than happy. Idaho law on noise boat built before 01/01/95 90 decibels washington is sending me this information by email. Reading is at 150 feet paraill to the shoreling underfull throttle. This boat which she said is a pleasure boat not com boat. Both Idaho and Spokane County said no decibles levels are needed for special events special events that mean saction races. The fog is to get a premint you need insurance, bond , everimunt (spelling suck) form crowd controll health facitity honey bucket. Both ask what speed, how long the event would be and what history the hoist club had putting on this type of event . I was asking in a general what if , we have race boat that were above the 90 decibels allowed for the public boating, what could we do about the noise level ( this on a what if) the officer ask how many classes and the time they would be on the water, I answer question on what I now and there was no problen just did not want them early in the day..... I would like to hear form race chairman in other clubs and know what their counties have for restrictions. I am not looking for fault withyour idea, but if these can and have seen print work where and why are not been used now. I would like to know the rpm@speed, tork and other performes they found by using these cans. I now Bob and Rick Montoya and will get contact with them and ask them if they were a good idea why they quite using them or did the race comp with them. the spud ( the house of screws old navy term for a prop repair station) call if you want 509-534-7003 good luck""" ask for dennis or spud