CSR Ballot Item.......

[3rd Chance]

No new classes

I agree that it stinks for people who run 25SSR with their Yamatos. It will ultimately be a class killer here in Region 3. CSR numbers have been steady over the years and I'm pretty sure will stay that way. Keep CSR where it is. We do not need any new classes, we need less. This will help out in running a program that will not be on the water from 9am until 6pm.

[B Walker]

This ballot item will go down in flames, just like last time. For the same reasons as last time.

I understand some drivers wanting to lower the weight so they can compete.

If your one of those people that has to put 50 lbs in your boat to race CSR, heres some tips: distribute the weight. 5lbs here and 10 lbs there wont strain the boat nearly as much as a 50lb sheet under the kneeling cusion. Consider buying a used boat that a heavy guy cant make weight in anymore. In my experience a wooden boat gains 2-5 lbs a year or so. I have sold several 3-5 year old boats I could no longer make weight in and then promptly gotten beat by them.

Weight is not the real issue here though.

CSR is not the place to learn how to drive a runabout. Neither is 25SSR with a Merc. Both of those rigs are difficult to drive, especially if you never been in a runabout before. I have seen too many people start in CSR and quit after a year or two cuz its no fun taking a bath every weekend. I think that is the single biggest reason for a decrease in CSR class participation lately.

A restricted Yamato took the edge off of a CSR and made it much more driveable and a very good place for a new driver to learn how to drive a runabout. In other words, a training ground, something badly needed in my opinion to provide a smooth transition in speed, handling, and difficulty from the smaller sized classes to the larger motors and speeds of CSR, DSR, and even into Mod and PRO categories.

The Sidewinder fills that need nicely from the information I have seen and heard so far, but will take a while to get up to speed. I have confidence the SORC will make decisions in the best long term interests of Stock Outboard racing. It will be a difficult and at times even painful transition. But in the end the sport and the category will be better off.

This ballot item is another example of short term thinking. That kind of thinking has gotten us to where we are now.

"Change" seems to be the buzzword these days. I would like to see change come to Stock Outboard and all forms of clamp on outboard racing by people taking a big picture look at the sport, not just their class, and try to make decisions and support decisions that are best for the long term good of the sport.

BW

[Racerkyle20]

I could go either way on this ballot. Sounds like if i voted for iyes, it won't pass anyway. Here are some reasons why they would want to lower the weight...

1) for arguements sake an average American male is 6'0'' 200lbs. Too big for any A class. Too big for 25ssr, 20ssh, or any B class. C classes are about the right weight and size for this person. D is also an option, but C has better compitition. To be competitive your going to need a fllying runnaboat (a runnecraft type boat). Z crafts are good boat to start in, but not as competitive on a national scale. Your still adding 20-30 lbs of lead. If lowered it would be less weight to add.

2)Give the 25ssr guys (especially in region 10) a place to race with their yamato 302 they already have. With the 302 out in 25, it gives people like Mike Perman (who has or was close to a 25ssr record a few years back) to run a runnaboat.

3)Help built the class. In region 10 we have a hard time getting 3-4 boats a weekend lately.

But...i understand both sides. Sounds like it won't even pass anyway. I do know one driver in region 10 who might benifit from a weight change (cough JMK), but he has a hard time staying in his CSR already. LOL

[MGallagher]

I think the issue of changing the weight has something to do with the Yamato being removed from 25SSR. When and if the rule comes into effect to remove the Yamato from 25SSR it seems it will make it an easier transition from the 25SSR weights into CSR weights.

Also, 25SSR should not be a training class, for that matter there should be no "training" classes. Before they made the weight changes in 25 we were running faster than our CSR or at least as fast around the course. Runabout driving is difficult, period, no matter who you are.

One last personal point is that I think this will make a 302 punch out of the turn a little faster, weeeeeee!

Bottom line is I am still not convinced that this is a bad thing.

[csh2z]

This issue, as well as most others, was not generated by the SORC. It was proposed by a driver.

[mercguy]

I won 25SSR on '07 with a restricted 102. Ed did win in Whitney '08 though. GL

oops, sorry Greg! Good to see you again in NC. Congrats on your achievements in 08!!!!!

[wagner-racing16-s]

By changing the weight is just going to make it that much harder for the bigger guys. Skinny guys have plenty of classes to run but the bigger guys its hard for them. Why change when there is nothing wrong?

[Gootz 142M]

DSR to CSR

For a guy like me going from DSR to CSR I hope its stays the same. Right Shafer????

[sponsonhead]

I Miss the Good Ol' Days

[Old F@rt Filter /ON]

You know, back in the days when 4-C and 110-J were on the SORC, this ballot item wouldn't have even made it to the Discussion table!

[Old F@rt Filter /OFF]

R-19

[kampkurz]

Ballot issue!

For now, my main interest is marathon racing so being over a little is not such an issue, (could have used another fifty pounds over Mullet Lake last year). But, and it's a big butt, I hope to build a short course boat and would not like to figure a way to lose another 15 pounds on the design and still have it last.
I like Darrel C4C's comment, that we will find out how many C class racers are over weight. If everyone wrote their weight on the ballot, it may make for an interesting demograhpic and may negate the need for future ballots such as this. KampKurz
P.S. Don't forget TopO' this year!!

[MGallagher]

Hydro weights:
ASH............................................... ........ 345 lbs.
BSH............................................... ........ 365 lbs. 20 lbs difference
25SSH............................................. ...... 400 lbs. 35 lbs difference
20SSH............................................. ...... 400 lbs.
CSH............................................... ........ 440 lbs. 40 lbs difference
DSH............................................... ........ 480 lbs. 40 lbs difference

Runabout weights:
ASR............................................... .........................................350 lbs.
BSR............................................... .........................................360 lbs. 10 lbs difference
25SSR (Yamato 102, 302 with 9/16” restrictor)..............................430 lbs.
(Yamato 102, 302 with 1/2” restrictor)....................................... ..405 lbs.
(Yamato 80, Mercury, Hot Rod B 20 c.i.).....................................395 lbs.
Avg weight for 25SSR .................................................. ............410 lbs. 50 lbs. difference
CSR............................................... .........................................475 lbs. 65 lbs difference
DSR .................................................. ....................................515 lbs. 35 lbs difference

Why is it so simplified for hydros and al over the board for runabouts?

[mercguy]

Hydro weights:
ASH............................................... ........ 345 lbs.
BSH............................................... ........ 365 lbs. 20 lbs difference
25SSH............................................. ...... 400 lbs. 35 lbs difference
20SSH............................................. ...... 400 lbs.
CSH............................................... ........ 440 lbs. 40 lbs difference
DSH............................................... ........ 480 lbs. 40 lbs difference

Runabout weights:
ASR............................................... .........................................350 lbs.
BSR............................................... .........................................360 lbs. 10 lbs difference
25SSR (Yamato 102, 302 with 9/16” restrictor)..............................430 lbs.
(Yamato 102, 302 with 1/2” restrictor)....................................... ..405 lbs.
(Yamato 80, Mercury, Hot Rod B 20 c.i.).....................................395 lbs.
Avg weight for 25SSR .................................................. ............410 lbs. 50 lbs. difference
CSR............................................... .........................................475 lbs. 65 lbs difference
DSR .................................................. ....................................515 lbs. 35 lbs difference

Why is it so simplified for hydros and al over the board for runabouts?

I believe if you factor in the size and weight of the boats and weight of the motors, you will find the differences accordingly for the runabout classes compared to hydros.

[Howie Nichols]

This issue, as well as most others, was not generated by the SORC. It was proposed by a driver.

John,
It may have come from a driver but the commission still must make a motion, 2nd it, discuss it, vote on it and if it passes the commission then and only then does it go to ballot

[csh2z]

Howie,
It was motioned and 2nded for discussion porposes. Without the motion & 2nd it would not have been discussed. It was determined to be a ballot issue as in the past. Good to see you last week.

[Brew56]

Class participation CSR vs 25ssR

Here's some SO numbers to look at. It shows participation in at least 4 days of racing sorted out by region. It gives you an idea where these classes are strong and where they are not.

CSR/25SSR 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005
R1: 1/2, 2/3, 4/4, 5/3
R2: 3/1, 4/1, 4/1, 4/0
R3: 7/3, 4/5, 4/4, 6/6
R4: 0/2, 1/1, 2/2, 4/3
R5: 3/1, 3/1, 6/0, 4/3
Can: 1/1, 2/0, 2/0, 1/0
R6: 8/7, 3/6, 5/5, 9/6
R7/8: 6/0, 5/0, 6/2, 5/2
R10: 7/0, 7/0, 10/2, 7/6
R11/12: 8/0, 7/0, 7/0, 10/0

Nationally (same 4-race criteria):
CSR: 2008-44, 2007-38, 2006-50, 2005-55
25ssR: 08-17, 2007-17, 2006-20, 2005-29