check this one out

[Tomtall]

Collectors

Have been to a few AOMCI meets over the past two years and have enjoyed all of them. The thing I liked most was seeing all the outdated exotics on display that are still taken out and demonstrated from time to time. The mercs are cool but nothing like a konig or cresent making sweet noise. Are things getting overpriced? Look at the Muscle car market if you want to see overpriced!

Here are some pics of a Michagan collectors engines that are open to the public a few times a year. They are also run on vintage race boats as well.Where would these engines be if he didn't collect and restore them? Probably in the scrape pile.

[David_L6]

Sad thing is that there are collectors out there willing to pay those kind of prices and then guys that are going to race them won't pay that much so another piece of racing machinery goes into someone's "museum" and never is seen on the water again
David Everhart S52

Is that such a bad thing? They're not competitive, unless you're possibly cottage racing, they're noisy and they pollute the water. Maybe someone is going to put it on a vintage boat they have restored. If it weren't for the collectors and restorers of vintage material, the passion for the sport (any sport) would die. And let's face it, the collectors of these old race motors are the people who raced with them or against them. We're all collectors to some degree. Lighten up.

As a member of both APBA and AMOCI I'm sorry to say that most of your suggestion is not accurate. I will grant you the fact that a converted 20H is noisy, but this is a non converted 20H. Just how does a 20H pollute the water more than a Hot Rod burning twice as much oil? How much louder than a 25xs is it? Of the AOMCI members who own 20H's very few of them own a boat suitable to run them on. Most end up as sawhorse queens at best. Next I will take issue with your suggestion that most collectors are former racers. I also do not find this to be the case. Former spectators, possibly yes, racers ... no. As far as antiquing supporting racing; I don't see that either. The two hobbies have evolved to be so different and apart from each other that they might as well be on different planets. Almost no racers go to antique meets and almost no collectors go to races. The number of racers who collect old retired racing outboards would fit on one or two single spaced pages.

In general, I think Dave is right.

I've been reading this and was going to try to stay out of it but....

I agree with Dave and Sam.

The bottom line: if all the KG7H, 20H and 30H motors disappeared it wouldn't affect APBA racing a bit. Same goes for the Martins, ChrisCraft and vintage Hot Rod motors and any other vintage racing motor out there. Yamato has taken over it seems. So what's the problem? I run my stuff and have all the motors listed above plus a 55H which you might be able to make an argument against since I'm hoarding a nice "D" case. I also have a boat for each of these engines so I guess I'm one of the few that collects and goes to the races. And, bye the way, every collector I know has had one of these engines in his life at some point in time. Why else would you want one? Do us a favor and bring back a serious competitive class to do some vintage racing. That would be great and a big boost to the sport in my opinion. Only then will I see your side of this debate. Jeff

Hhmmm..... Taking racing parts out of circulation won't hurt boat racing? You say that Yamato has taken over. Ever wonder why? (Yamato hasn't taken over in every class.)

See Mike Marshall's post about the 20H.
Think it's possible that there'd be more Merc C Mods running if parts hadn't been scarfed up by collectors that have no intention of racing?
How many Mercury racing lower units do collectors have collecting dust that could be under a race motor?

Boatcrazy and others,
At this years 2007 Mod Nationals there were 15 entries in the A Mod Runabout class. ALL of them (including 6 Mark 20H's) were "antique" including the Hot Rods. It was a great turnout and there was some fine racing. 3 of the Mark 20H's were quite competitive. Joe Silvestri brought out an engine that he hadn't raced for more than 15 years and finished 2nd in one of his elimination heats but unfortunately jumped the gun in the other heat. Shaun Brill was also competitive with his 20H until he broke something electrical and couldn't make the second green flag.
There are still a bunch of us guys running Mark 20H's in APBA. As to noise, no 20H compares to the howl of my 22ci Merc in the 25Mod class. Ouch ! But I love em' !
You may run what you like but I like my 2-cylinder Mercs. Please don't knock classes just because you don't run them. Collect all that you can afford. The more you own the more valuable mine becomes. Like Jeff Williams says, Bigger, Louder, Faster. Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

Mike Marshall just made the point. Mark 20H's are still being raced.

Mark 30's are too - in mod.

What lower unit is used on those motors?

What Merc lower unit is used in D Stock, D Mod, E Mod, and FE/SE?

[smirnoff]

Using the same logic as the 20h & what somebody is wishing to pay.....I have a vintage 1968 Minimax 8ft hydro that I am sure is worth at least $5,000

[STEVE FRENCH]

Have been to a few AOMCI meets over the past two years and have enjoyed all of them. The thing I liked most was seeing all the outdated exotics on display that are still taken out and demonstrated from time to time. The mercs are cool but nothing like a konig or cresent making sweet noise. Are things getting overpriced? Look at the Muscle car market if you want to see overpriced!

Here are some pics of a Michagan collectors engines that are open to the public a few times a year. They are also run on vintage race boats as well.Where would these engines be if he didn't collect and restore them? Probably in the scrape pile.

The Wizard Super-10 in bottom pic is an exact twin to the one I've been work'n on all week........EXCEPT mine will run with a Mark-28 powerhead in A-MOD. Hopefully, at Lock Haven in a couple weeks.... (tried to git the 25ss powerhead in it but not enough room)......Also going to test against my 22-OMC/closed exhaust on 25ss tower............guess I really cross the line make'n my own motors out'a "classics"

19P

[sam]

Using the same logic as the 20h & what somebody is wishing to pay.....I have a vintage 1968 Minimax 8ft hydro that I am sure is worth at least $5,000

Boats and motors don't seem to live in the same market. Its rare to see a boat go for more than $500

[kws]

no matter how much it bothers us. The truth is it doesnt matter what it is. A collector can and will, pay more than someone that will actually USE it. we all know the value will not go down and they are not risking their investment as a racer would. even if (as may racers do )we had the bucks to spend thousands on an old motor to run every other weekend, we are unwilling to do so. that really is not the collectors fault, now is it? (yes it bugs me too)

[Heliarc]

Boatcrazy and others,
At this years 2007 Mod Nationals there were 15 entries in the A Mod Runabout class. ALL of them (including 6 Mark 20H's) were "antique" including the Hot Rods. It was a great turnout and there was some fine racing. 3 of the Mark 20H's were quite competitive. Joe Silvestri brought out an engine that he hadn't raced for more than 15 years and finished 2nd in one of his elimination heats but unfortunately jumped the gun in the other heat. Shaun Brill was also competitive with his 20H until he broke something electrical and couldn't make the second green flag.
There are still a bunch of us guys running Mark 20H's in APBA. As to noise, no 20H compares to the howl of my 22ci Merc in the 25Mod class. Ouch ! But I love em' !
You may run what you like but I like my 2-cylinder Mercs. Please don't knock classes just because you don't run them. Collect all that you can afford. The more you own the more valuable mine becomes. Like Jeff Williams says, Bigger, Louder, Faster. Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

I was wondering. Were there any stock Merc 25ss engines competing in either A Runabout or A Hydro at the Mod Nationals? If so, how did they do?

[Tomtall]

Prices

we had the bucks to spend thousands on an old motor to run every other weekend,

Seems to me people are spending $3000 to run a good legal "A" stock OMC or Merc.Good reworked Yamatos have gone for some farley good prices as well.
What is the differance for a 20H to go for the same cost. Whether it sites to be viewed as art or run at the races.

[Tomtall]

Wizard collection

The Wizard Super-10 in bottom pic is an exact twin to the one I've been work'n on all week........EXCEPT mine will run with a Mark-28 powerhead in A-MOD.

Ronald Lietas just won a best of show in the AOMCI Wisconsin meet for his Wizard display. He runs them on his restored race boats at the meets. Many of the boats in first collection pictures I posted were restored by Ronald and sold. These people invest a huge amount of their time,effort and money to keep these classics around for others to enjoy.

[STEVE FRENCH]

I was wondering. Were there any stock Merc 25ss engines competing in either A Runabout or A Hydro at the Mod Nationals? If so, how did they do?

I was help'n Randy Bearden with a 22-OMC on a H/R tower for Lauren to run in AMR but have not heard if it's run yet.

It makes this a FUN class cause you can run sooooo many of these "old" motors in this class;
15H/R-meg
15H/R-chambered
25SS-stock
22 OMC-stock (Merc/Hot-Rod tower)
20H
20H converted
Kg-4----unlimited!!!!! (take a look at George Stillwell's sometime if you want to see what a little imagination can come up with with these old motors!!!!

Heliarc---any progress with that Merc-A-Alky motor?.....would be cool to test (heck-RACE it!!) it at Lock Haven!

Will try to post pics of the "Wizard" and my KG-20H Megaphone motor before going to test em today. ...Gott'a hurry, a buddy stopped yesterday with 2-Alky/Briggs Go-Karts and offered a ride in one in the Corn Field-500 today at Hill-top Raceway in Clymer,Ny....never been in one.......Gonna learn FASSSSSSTTTTTTTT

19P

[KG4]

I agree with BoatCrazy.the apba needs a vintage racing series for these old engines.I have tried a few times and didnt get much interest.Look at the growth of vintage snowmobile racing.They even have a world championship for vintage every year and these old sleds fly.Look at the antique guys in the pro catagory,They race those old babys weekend and weekout.Just a thought but if i could race my stock kg i would come back racing in a heartbeat.

[STEVE FRENCH]

I agree with BoatCrazy.the apba needs a vintage racing series for these old engines.I have tried a few times and didnt get much interest.Look at the growth of vintage snowmobile racing.They even have a world championship for vintage every year and these old sleds fly.Look at the antique guys in the pro catagory,They race those old babys weekend and weekout.Just a thought but if i could race my stock kg i would come back racing in a heartbeat.

Give advance warning you are bring'n one to a local race to run in A-MOD and you should git some interest! ....There has got to be a couple KG-4/7's to run with in IOA/Indiana outboard races!!....There was almost a full field of em A-B Classic at the 1998 Nationals (50'th anniversary of the kg-4).....Cooper Jess was the one to beat!!

Could have a extra BSH rig avail to run one on at Lock Haven if interested....

19P

[kws]

I agree with BoatCrazy.the apba needs a vintage racing series for these old engines.I have tried a few times and didnt get much interest.Look at the growth of vintage snowmobile racing.They even have a world championship for vintage every year and these old sleds fly.Look at the antique guys in the pro catagory,They race those old babys weekend and weekout.Just a thought but if i could race my stock kg i would come back racing in a heartbeat.

it is my understanding that you can .... at an NBRA race

[KG4]

it is my understanding that you can .... at an NBRA race

That would be great.Who can i talk to to find out more about it?Thanks

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Who Can I Talk To???

Art Kampen, he's on here.
RichardKCMo

That would be great.Who can i talk to to find out more about it?Thanks