Wanted: Formula A motor race ready

[Brian10s]

Brian, great points but why wait? If we simply allow all current OMC "A" stock engines to be modified to what is currently allowable for the Formula A motors we can achieve several of our goals.

1st - I believe what you are talking about goes against the "Stock" credo by requiring Modifications to an existing engine. Yes, I know it is done all the time in other classes for other reasons but I believe that the current ruling class of Stock would like to get back to the "Stock" mindset.

First, we get rid of two classes (FAR and FAH)

These are Mod classes not Stock. The Mod Commission (and drivers since Mod rules have to be voted on) are the only ones with the stroke to eliminate Modified classes.

Second, we have a place for all of the Formula engines just sitting in garages, shop, trailers etc.

Third, we can create an opportunity for new "A" records to be set since all "A" records in existence at the introduction of the SW/A will most likely be "frozen", archived or whatever they call it. (Hey, more HOC point opportunities for someone )

Am I correct that technical rule changes don't need to go to ballot?

Can the SORC make this type of change mid season or do they have to wait until next year?

I do not know what "powers" the SORC has but I have never heard of such a drastic change happening during the racing season. I would think isomething like this would be a National Meeting item.

And, what exactly are the differences in allowable engine modification between "A" and "FA"?

I personally do not know but I would think that if you looked in the Tech manuals for each classes, the difference would be apparent

If we've been down this road before ... my apologies!

In regards to the records and such - that I believe is yet to be determined by the SORC and we all will have to wait and see what happens. Also, this all is assuming that the SW A is faster or much slower than the OMC & Merc. If it ends up equal, then who knows what will happen.

[Dave M]

Why is it ?

Why would you try to lure someone to stock when they already asked to purchase a Mod ? There are no proposals to combine the categories yet.

The fighting between categories needs to stop. Stock is NOT better than Mod, and Mod is not better than stock. So quit trying to sell someone on either category and let them make their own minds up.

No wonder people only stick around a year or two and leave.......

[Dr. Thunder]

To both Dave, Brian and anybody else that wanders by ...

Why would you try to lure someone to stock when they already asked to purchase a Mod ? There are no proposals to combine the categories yet.

The fighting between categories needs to stop. Stock is NOT better than Mod, and Mod is not better than stock. So quit trying to sell someone on either category and let them make their own minds up.

No wonder people only stick around a year or two and leave.......

My APBA membership is for Stock, Mod and Pro ... I like em all! I love all kneeldown racing and have for over 50 years!

• I rarely race anymore ... too old (that's what my wife says ... grow up Grandpa)

• But I still have opinions and ideas ... some good, some bad, some terrible

• My idea was not intended to disrupt the FAH/FAR Mod class but rather to support it for as long as there were active participants. My suggestion was to persuade the SORC to let the current ASH/ASR OMC engines be modified to the current FA limits and still be considered a Stock class ... I think they are about 75% there anyway so what would be the big deal.

• Short-term this would provide for more ASH/ASR entries at Stock events and long-term more FAH/FAR entries at Mod events.

• Someone reported on a earlier post that most FA events already include stock OMC engines anyway.

• So FAH/FAR and ASH/ASR become the same for a year or so, once again ... big deal! After the introduction and approval of the SW/A engine you have a brand new ASH/ASR class that is true "Stock"

• You then have the potential for full fields of Mod FAR/FAH entries at most if not all Mod sanctioned events including Nationals for as long as you still have OMC "FA" engines, parts, etc. available. In other words ... pretty much forever.

• I can't think of even one reason that this suggestion should be rejected ... it has merit ... where am I wrong? I know I must be missing something ... but what?

[Brian10s]

I don't think your idea is wrong, nor did I reject it. I just think that, based on the direction and discussions of the past, that the current SORC is moving towards a more "stock" orientation as opposed to allowing more modifications. But I could be wrong - it has happened in the past (but only once).

I say write it up as a proposal and submit it to your commissioner - the worse that can happen is it gets rejected.

[Dr. Thunder]

<snip>
I say write it up as a proposal and submit it to your commissioner - the worse that can happen is it gets rejected.

Can't deal with rejection

Just testing the water first ... contrary to some opinions Hydroracer is a more than reasonable forum to float ideas, assumptions etc.

Waiting for any SORC types to weigh in anonymously or overtly

[ryan_4z]

Dr.,

While you do raise some good points about how this could ease the transition of the OMC out of Stock, when that time comes, this really isn't a realistic idea. You are talking about forcing 150 or more people to spend thousands of dollars to stay competitive in their class. We are trying to get back to being truely "stock", this would be a big step backwards in that aspect. It's acctually a very interesting theory, but just not really feasible.

[Brian10s]

Dr.,

While you do raise some good points about how this could ease the transition of the OMC out of Stock, when that time comes, this really isn't a realistic idea. You are talking about forcing 150 or more people to spend thousands of dollars to stay competitive in their class. We are trying to get back to being truely "stock", this would be a big step backwards in that aspect. It's acctually a very interesting theory, but just not really feasible.

Ryan,
But aren't those 150 going to have to spend more money to purchase the new SW A when it becomes available in order to be competitive? You have stated that you want to get back to "Stock" which is one motor per class and the new motor in the dominant motor if there are multiple, correct? So no matter what, those 150 A drivers will be spending money, what difference if it is now or later?

I guess it all depends on where the new SW A runs at. If it is just a tick fasted than a stock OMC, then a FA OMC would be to close and then you get into the parity issue again.

[Dr. Thunder]

Dr.,

While you do raise some good points about how this could ease the transition of the OMC out of Stock, when that time comes, this really isn't a realistic idea. You are talking about forcing 150 or more people to spend thousands of dollars to stay competitive in their class.

Actually, I'm not suggesting that we "force" anything on anyone. Merely suggesting that the modifications be allowable, permissive ... not mandatory. So, spend if you want. But remember the following statement from D. Holt ...

"You can take a good 'A' stock and be very competitive with the few Formula 'A's that exist at local races ..."

We are trying to get back to being truely "stock", this would be a big step backwards in that aspect. It's acctually a very interesting theory, but just not really feasible.

I think the idea is not only extremely feasible but solves a number of nagging issues relative to current motor availability.

And, as Brian correctly points out in a subsequent post ... they are going to have to spend additional dollars sooner or later if they want to continue to race ASH/ASR. It's going to take a very long time to build up an ASH/ASR field of new SW engines ... I doubt that they will sell 150+ motors quickly. I really hope that they do ... but, somehow I think most guys are going to take a wait and see approach. How long did it take the OMC "A" engines reach peak numbers when we obsoleted the KG4?

Thanks for the comments Ryan. I appreciate the dialogue.

[Hydroglobe17J]

AJ Jennings from PA has a Formula A engine for sale, he's on this site.

[Cameraboy]

let my motor go...

Let the guy buy a Formula A. By the time outboard racing figures out what to do with Formula A , he'll have worn the dang thing out and had some fun with it.

[Dr. Thunder]

Let the guy buy a Formula A. By the time outboard racing figures out what to do with Formula A , he'll have worn the dang thing out and had some fun with it.

Hey Mike ... do you really think that anyone (besides me ) is really trying to figure out what to do with Formula A?

[Cameraboy]

No idea, Doc - my driver isn't a Mod commissioner anymore.

[Brian10s]

Hey Mike ... do you really think that anyone (besides me ) is really trying to figure out what to do with Formula A?

How about run it in Formula A? FA has nothing to do with what is going on with Stock - if you want to run your motor, run it. If there are not enough boats, con, convince & twist arms to get the stock OMC's to run with you. At the very least - it is more boat time for new drivers.

My point is - I don't think that the FA engine is high up on the SORC project list. However, if you have ideas to make FA more attractive to new/ old racers, I will be the MORC would be interested.

Just a thought.

[Hydroglobe17J]

Side Winder B

I don't get the whole idea of sidewinder A coming out before the B? I've been wanting to race B since I came back and all I hear is they don't have any engines out there. Would it make more sense to come out with a B sidewinder first to get that class back on it's feet. Seems like the A class is fine for now. Also, I would have loved to race FAH or FAR and at the Franklin.PA fall race, they had it and no one (Justice) mentioned anything to me, that's really pushing for more boats and hurt my feelings. I enjoy racing and making up classes as people saw this past season with me in ASXR, which hurts a lot! So, why not give me a B sidewinder to race first, then an A also?

[dcrabtree]

&quot;New Racers&quot;

I've been reading your comments on this FA class and mainly the comment Mike Runne made on new racers getting sold are mainly shafted with equipment that isn't worth anything.I'm coming back into "Mod" after 27 years with my brother Steve and let me tell you,my head is spinning over what I've run acrossed.Theres so many new classes and engines I'm at a total loss.
So it would be nice to go to something or somewhere and get the info one needs.And maybe there is a website or book out other than the rule books.If there is I haven't found it but I have a handicap I've been in the sport before thats what these new guys don't have.Thank you for your time.Dan Crabtree