Stock Outboard Gas?

[sam]

Octane rating is resitance to "knock" and nothing more ... including flame speed

[raceboat61-S]

The Stock rulebook specifically states that fuel must be automotive pump gas. In Modified category either automotive or aviation gasoline or any other un-oxygenated gasoline is legal.
And, knock is??? ...........your answer here.............
In my non-expert mind "knock" is "too-early" detonation, which is what causes the ping or knock sometimes audible in a car. Pre-ignition in a 2-cycle racing engine probably won't be noticed until the piston is "fried". To get the most power out of any engine the ignition/explosion begins before the piston reaches top dead center. The whole secret of timing an engine is to accurately time the surge of the explosion to coincide with the beginning of the pistons downward travel. To do this the ignition must occur before TDC and the surge happens some nanoseconds later. When you change octane in your fuel you theoretically should change your timing, too. Octane is indeed a slow-down additive so that the surge continues for a longer portion of piston travel. Just my opinion. Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

[Joe J]

I believe you are missing both mine, and others point on this subject.

As an inspector, how am I to know where you purchased your fuel?

Joe

[Big Don]

The Stock rulebook specifically states that fuel must be automotive pump gas.

Rule does not say automotive, it says standard pump gasoline. Pretty vague...in my opinion. All fuel comes from a pump...

Point being it needs to be addressed in Florida.

Just saw this on the APBA e-alert newsletter... from Mike Wienandt, OPC Chairman

On Wednesday, January 25th, at the Annual APBA Convention, At 2:00 pm after the OPC Technical committee members meet in a closed meeting, they will open the doors to other category officials as they will have a Fuel Seminar put on by Precision Auto Research. We will discuss today’s fuel and how our fuel rules are affected. We hope to formulate new fuel rules that can be presented to all categories and possibly adopted APBA wide. OPC is taking a pro-active look at the fuels of today, trying to make them more understood so we can make racing more friendly. Please set your travel plans accordingly.

[ryan_4z]

Rule does not say automotive, it says standard pump gasoline. Pretty vague...in my opinion. All fuel comes from a pump...

Point being it needs to be addressed in Florida.

Just saw this on the APBA e-alert newsletter... from Mike Wienandt, OPC Chairman

On Wednesday, January 25th, at the Annual APBA Convention, At 2:00 pm after the OPC Technical committee members meet in a closed meeting, they will open the doors to other category officials as they will have a Fuel Seminar put on by Precision Auto Research. We will discuss today’s fuel and how our fuel rules are affected. We hope to formulate new fuel rules that can be presented to all categories and possibly adopted APBA wide. OPC is taking a pro-active look at the fuels of today, trying to make them more understood so we can make racing more friendly. Please set your travel plans accordingly.

That sounds like it will be an important, and informative meeting. With the recent fuel issues after the nationals, I would say it would be very important for the members of the SORC to attend this meeting and see if a clarification of the rule can be made.

[hydroplay]

Rules are rules are rules but are only as good as the inspection process behind them. For all you guys who cry about pump gas being required, how does the inspector determine that the sample you you give him comes from a bonafide gas station or is some hydrocarbon mix you brewed up in your garage?

In short, the inspector can't tell where, how or who made it. He can't tell if it is a single hydrocarbon compound or a mixture of 25 different ones. He can meter it and check the several other tests allowed in the rule book but that's it. You can tell him it is pump gas but he has absolutely no way to verify your statement. The "pump gas" requirement in the rules is just an attempt by the SORC administration to intimidate people into using ordinary, consumer gasoline rather than a special fuel. However, as time has passed and cir***stances have changed, less and less of the ordinary consumer gasoline will actually pass the tests. Rule changes to the allowable meter readings the SORC made in the last couple years has only served to encourage racers to experiment more with fuel because the higher meter readings allow more conductive "contaminents" to the basic hydrocarbon fuel.

The real problem here is that we desire a simple, quick, non-expensive yet comprehensive field test to insure that everyone's fuel is comparable. The meter does does accomplish most of those goals but is lacking on the comprehensive part. Other tests can give more results but compromise the ease, simplicity and low cost of meter testing.

If the real intent of the SORC is to give a fuel rule platform for equal competition, specifically at the Nationals and/or other championship races, it seems to me that the only way to do that is to require a specific fuel and a specific oil for that event. This would produce a tightly controlled meter readings, specific gravity, color and odor. This gas could be either from one specific gas station and grade or from barrels of race gas supplied by the race organization. The oil would be ONE commercial BIA certified oil. Oil/fuel ratios may vary for classes to correspond to engine requirements. Do I anticipate such a simple, inexpensive solution from the SORC?

And for the discussion on octane... Octane has nothing at all to do with the burning rate of the fuel. It does relate to the resistance of the fuel mixture to auto-ignite by the temperature/pressure under compression in the engine. A fuel with a higher octane rating will withstand more heat and pressure before it auto-ignites but once it does ignite, that fuel may burn slower or faster than another sample.

[14-H]

*** The "pump gas" requirement in the rules is just an attempt by the SORC administration to intimidate people into using ordinary, consumer gasoline rather than a special fuel. ***.

The "standard pump gas" requirement is not an intimidation tactic: it is the RULE! All of the measuring devices are used in order to enforce the RULE.

And it is not the obligation of the inspector to demonstrate that fuel is illegal. If the inspector has a good faith basis to believe that the fuel is illegal and the RULE has been violated, the inspector should disqualify the competitor. In my personal opinion, it is then the responsibility of the competitor to demonstrate that the fuel is standard pump gasoline and the RULE was not broken.

The practical effect of this may be that those who consider placing additives in their fuel are intimidated and may think twice about it. But that is the consequence of all rules for those who entertain such thoughts.

I also believe that if the meter reads illegal and the inspector has a good faith basis to believe that there is an error (like it's pouring down rain at the moment and there's a high probability that there's water in the tank), the competitor should not be disqualified since the RULE was not broken.

Now I do agree that our gracious friends at the EPA have made things a little more complicated. There should be a way to determine if reformulation additives are in the fuel (which come from the pump) or if the fuel is specially formulated for racing. Reformulated fuel is also standard pump gasoline and is technically legal although the meters and tests will tell the inspector otherwise.

I also agree that we need to change the rule to allow the race committee to require that fuel be purchased at the race site and used in competition. This will solve much of the problems.

[sam]

there is a way to ensure all stock racers use the same fuel .... gokart racers already do it:

All racers bring fuel to the race committee and it is dumped into one barrel and after the driver's meeting everyone gets the same amount of fuel back from the race committee's barrel

If there is serious concern that someone's gas is making them faster, this is one way Stock outboarders can solve it.

One of the motorcycle mags did a test article on power adding additives and race gas on a dyno a few years back. One gasoline (of 5 or 6) did give a very small power increase (made me very suspicious). Power increasing additives did not give any significant power increase until they were driving the meter crazy.

[PopPop]

Octane

For a little education on octane go to;
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

[sam]

Phil, it is not exactly complete or accurate

[Joe J]

The "standard pump gas" requirement is not an intimidation tactic: it is the RULE! All of the measuring devices are used in order to enforce the RULE.

And it is not the obligation of the inspector to demonstrate that fuel is illegal. If the inspector has a good faith basis to believe that the fuel is illegal and the RULE has been violated, the inspector should disqualify the competitor. .

To my knowledge, the normal measuring tools used cannot tell the difference between regular pump gas, av-gas, and full on race gas. Using the above statement , any driver who's gas reads a large negative number would then be subject to a DQ. Sounds like a no-win situation to me

Maybe the Stock category should review and adopt the Mod rule.

It seems to me that this is a subject that needs to be brought up at the commission meeting.

Joe

[Dick Tyndall]

Community fuel..............

I have seen how the kart racers do it in my area; just as Sam has mentioned above. At least that's how they do it with the methanol classes. When I was flying model airplanes I raced in a class that everyone used fuel from the same drum, made by a specific manufacturer. You knew what the fuel was, what kind of oil was in it, and you could buy it in most hobby shops to practice with it. Being a bit particular about what I will run in any of my engines as far as fuel or oils go, I would ABSOLUTELY NOT run anything in my motor from a container that my competitors had dumped their fuel/gas/oil into. If a race organizer for a Stock Outboard event advertised before a race that they would be supplying a certain brand/octane of pump gas mixed with a certain brand/type of oil at least it would put everyone on a level playing field and it would give you a chance to test with it. It would most likely increase your entry fees, also. Personally, I haven't seen this to be a big problem in the races I've been to except for the strange aroma around the pits in Dayton this year. Keep the rules simple; if it doesn't pass the testing meter, put'em on the trailer............

[hydroplay]

OK, Ed

If "pump gas" is such an essential part of your fuel rule, why aren't racers disqualified for using any of the various race gases and/or aircraft fuel? I have raced for many years using Union 76 leaded race gas and have never had an issue in inspection with it yet I would say that it is NOT ordinary pump gas. I know of numerous others who have won Nationals using other race fuels as well and they were not disqualified. Conversely, why are some other racers disqualified for using ordinary consumer gasoline? You say pump gas is a valid requirement yet there are numerous examples of racers not using it and passing fuel inspection and others using it and failing.

The answer is, of course, that "pump gas" is neither a meaningful nor enforcable requirement. If some racers get by without using pump gas and others are disqualified for using it, it has long-ceased being a legitimate requirement. You may still have it in the rule book, through either inertia or ignorance, but it don't mean nothing when a competitor gets to the inspection area.

[Matt Dagostino]

Fuel Wars.............

As the years have passed and retail pump gas has gone from bad to worse for 'outboard motor' operations, it seems the 'Commission' should word the definition of allowable gas similar to that of the way we define our legal 'oils'.

We all know the goal is to use 'safe fuel' that does not illegally enhance a motors output. I feel for the poor SOB who goes to the local gas station and pumps gas into the can and shows up at a race to find that due to the 'stuff' put in pump gas at your typical Shell station he or she is now illegal and scrambling for fuel on race day!! I travel 3 hours round trip to a county in Virginia that sell non-reformulated gas!!! Yes, believe it or not it still exists in the south!! This saves my butt and gives me a safe feeling that no matter where I go I am well within the meter and adhering to the 'spirit' of the rule. However rules need to be changed and modified as necessary to adjust to the times. Our current rule is hypocritical and actually rewards cheaters and punishes competitors who try to use standard pump gas?? What's the answer......... maybe reword the 'gas' portion of our rule book to allow for alternative gas like AV gas or Cam 2 or whatever without illegally increasing HP??

If not, ya'll welcome to come to Virginia to "gas up'.........

Later



J- Dad.


Ps............Hydroplay is one to talk about gas. The local restaurant you took us to by your shop would peg the meter in that department!! Ouch. We are still looking for your package in the mailbox!

[ricochet112]

How about this one Sam

Is this more accurate Sam?
Isn't it also true that a higher octane fuel does burn slower? Something about flame propagation?
Mike


http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthi...a070401a_2.htm