Whats going on with DSH folkz?

[Kip69w]

Ya know.... I've spent the last 4-5 yrs starting up and promoting race-sites here in Reg7. As a result, Ive also gone to fewer races. (sorry) But as I attempt to get out and race MORE this year, I now find that there is far less DSH's showing up at the races. What the heck? What did I miss..?..?

The thing is, I hear that there's a ****load of guys who have their 44xs engines PARKED in their basements and garages. (I heard this same thing is occurring on the west coast too) So I'm curious - - -WHY IS THIS?

So... you know who they are...(maybe its you) Please chime in with your (or their) reasoning for this. Im bummed out about this. Should the rest of the "D" guys park or sell our stuff too? I would think if we did, then that DSH motor you guys have "parked" or "stored" in your basements --will become less valuable when you go to sell it...(Y/N?)

What would it take to get you guys to start running your stuff again? Thoughts & Comments are encouraged.

[blueskyracer]

I am sure part of it is they are no longer competitive with the Tohatsu..

[mercguy]

that's not true............a good 44XS can win at any time...............Guido will kick our Tohatsu butts when he wants...

[ctpdsr]

Sounds familiar. Same thing happened when the 44XS replaced the 55H in the late 1980's. You not only needed a new motor to compete, and an expensive one at that, but a new boat as well. Maybe some of the props would work, maybe not. The idea was that the new motor would very gradually replace the vintage stuff simply did not pan out. If you wanted to remain competitive, you had a big decision to make. By contrast, the Yamato vs. 30H in class C seemed to work better. The motors were cheap, reliable, and for the most part, worked fine on the existing fleet of boats.

[csh12M]

This is an interesting question...if you look at it at the class level you can draw many conclusions of what/why things happened in the D stock classes and what could/should of been done to prevent it. However, I would contend that you look at it a level higher at the "kneel down" level. With the blending of the Stock and Mod categories there are cheaper options to go 80MPH than D stock. 750MH and 500MH for that matter both go near or exceed D speeds. Every race in the nation now with the exception of IOA and MHRA run both. Look at the contrasting participation numbers over those years. The Mod classes grew and DSH dwindled. Once you get to a point of it not racing every weekend at your races, it is hard to fix.

[Matt Dagostino]

By contrast, the Yamato vs. 30H in class C seemed to work better. The motors were cheap, reliable, and for the most part, worked fine on the existing fleet of boats.

BINGO...........this is the formula that works in Stock Outboard and actually all racing. $8000 Tahatsus (all tricked out) in DSH and $5000 Sidewinders in ASH class are a recipe for failure. As fragile as racing has become over the last decade money always seems to be at the root of everything! )

[Team 12R]

Another reason we are having a hard time with building/maintaining DSH participation is for that 8000 dollars a guy gets a (1) class (2) ride a day boat. I know I'm going to get flamed but a Tohatsu is not a step up motor for FEH. Why would a guy spend that kind of dough and be happy with (2) rides a day. Even if a boat ride is all he's after in a class that is 15mph faster there aren't enough 850's in my Region to make a class. We need to not worry about protecting our motor boxes and make that ("stock" Tohatsu) a legal point earning motor in 750CCH. Easy Fix

[chuck w]

I have spent alot of time wondering why there is so much good equipment parked in garages and basements in all classes. We all put so much effort into trying to bring in new people but what about all those people that have equipment? Maybe if there was more effort to get these people back out there would be more participation. Almost seems easier than getting new people. I am still new but have realized its not so easy getting new drivers.
Just a thought

[Kip69w]

Thx Chuck. This is one of my exact points. This IS an issue here in Reg7. I heard the same out on the west coast (although the Tohatsu might be the issue there)

Need to formulate SOMETHING to get the "D" back out at the races in Reg7/Reg6

[pstock800]

i started racing 5 years ago. I started in D. with a Tohatsu. It is a very tough class to run. if you are not in tip top shape it can really put a strain on your body. at this point I wouldn't mind parking my D and getting into a smaller boat like CSH. I love the speed in the D, maybe it is just me but Ds are a tough class on the body.

[Ram4x4]

As a newbie who never even knew all these smaller classes of boats existed until one day at my local mall where TRORA had a display and having exactly two drives in a 302 boat, one thing that has me scratching my head....why so darn many classes in a category?

Stock outboard alone has 13 classes. Then there's mod outboard, with another 13 classes, shown on APBA's site by displacement, but I find out there's letter mod classes too, unless those are the same?

Then we step into PRO category with 19 classes, with some of them seemingly the same as some of the stock or mod outboard classes (what's the difference between an OSY400 and a C???). These "bore and stroke" PRO classes seem to be the same or similar as the displacement mod outboard classes.

I thought European Formula 1 car racing was incredibly tedious...eek!

It seems the differences are motors, weight and dimensions. Some have restrictions, some don't. It seems to me that it makes more sense that OSY400 should be THE "C" class...period. Same motors, pretty much the same boats with the added advantage that OSY400 is an international class for those so inclined to take their boat around the world.

What's really the difference between 20SSH and C mod or 302 SSH?

I went to the race in Franklin and quite a few of the classes only had 3 boats running. That can't be fun for drivers, always wondering if anyone in your category and class will show up so you can race.

Oh well, for a newbie, it is a bit mind boggling.

[csh12M]

For a newbie, you have exactly nailed it. We have way more product (classes) than we have consumers. As an organization we have not been able to make any hard decisions regarding "rightsizing" the organizations. I have given up and just accepted that it will always be this way.

[Kip69w]

YES!! Nailed it there too. One never know IF there will be a class until race weekend arrives. Could never figure out why clubs dont require "pre-registration" to resolve that? Nothing worse as driving to a race to find out there isnt enuff boats to make class!!

And the 3 boat races? Yeah, this really buggs the hell outta me as a race promoter. So many times Ive had sponsors (and spectators) say..."Whats up with the 3 boat races? This is really boring!"

[Art K]

The last race NBRA race that we attended had 9 D Hyd. 9 D Run. We do combine the 40 ci Mod Merc. with the Tohatsu. Both engines had heat wins, and is becoming one of our most popular classes. Art K

[daveracerdsh]

Very interesting points all around. Like Darren mentioned earlier....a good, well maintained 44XS can still beat a Tohatsu.....is has been done this year. Gweedo beat both Darren and myself at Silver Lake Everett...we did not jump the gun...he just plain beat us. A D stock Tohatsu ride IS expensive new out of the box...no doubt about it. And...like any racing motor, you have to do a fair amount of maintinence on it....but, once you get everything dialed in, they are pretty reliable. I have yet to see one throw a rod like the Merc's did. I have been racing D stock since 1985, starting out with a 55H, moving on to the 44XS in the winter of 1988....I actually bought the last new 44XS made in 1993.....and went on to the Tohatsu mid year in 2009. I bought my second Tohatsu (used) in 2013...and have been running second motor since. A few minor issues along the way, some my fault, some not, but for the most part I have found the motor to be very reliable. For those of you that have never run a good D stock, whether it be a 44XS or a Tohatsu...you will come in with a smile on your face...that is the allure of the class.. There is simply no other class in boat racing that has the combination of power and handling that a D stock has. Also....the mod commission HAS to approve this motor for D mod next year. It is hurting both D mod and D stock in region ten, and has killed D stock and D mod in California. More on that issue later.............

[trident]

OK, I'll regret this, but I can't help it... How are you throwing rods in the 44XS?

In all the 44's I've worked on, we've never thrown a rod. Are you running bent rods after dumping a motor? Are you not checking them for straightness (even new ones) when you built the motor?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I just have not seen those rods fail, if they're checked and properly assembled. How is this happening?

I'd be happy to share my prep methods with anyone who asks...

[Kip69w]

So................... (please keep the comments coming)

• How many of you "know" of D-engines that are sitting in basements and garages?
• If you do know of that person- have you heard (from them) they're own reasoning or the whats & why's?
• Any suggestions as to what can be done to entice them back out to the race-course?

These are things Im curious about as a D-stock race AND race promoter

[runabout333]

Check in Minnesota,,, Steve Johnson,,, Mike Franck,,, Mark Erikstrup.

[Kip69w]

Yes, Im thinkin to ask Palmquist, Wheeler & a few other Michigan guys too

[pops67g]

Ya know Kip, there are as many different reasons for the decline in D stock as there are people who have run it. Some of the reasons seem to hint at solutions. The thing that sticks out most in my mind is the mistaken idea that having new motors available in any class will encourage new participants. D stock is a prime example. I'll bet we don't have to look too far to find others.

[mercguy]

hopefully there will be a BIG turn out of DSH's at Wakefield, since the majority of them are in that demographic area.............

[daveracerdsh]

I have had a total of 4 44XS motors over the years.....my first motor threw a rod thru the side in 94 or 95 with J Mike driving it.....second motor also ventilated itself a few years later. As far as why? I sure am no mechanic.....but from what I remember the rods were very thin "cracked rods" and we were turning the hell out of these things, with a heavy flywheel to boot. And, I also remember the number three rod was the one that usually let go...something to do with theway it was cooled....my memory has dimmed somewhat on it. I also remember I was not the only one that blew these things up....I do not have an exact count but there were quite a few guys (and girls) that came in at the end of a tow rope with 44XS parts littering their bellypan. The statement that the new motor has not helped the class? I have to disagree with that. The last new 44XS was sold in 1993, over 20 years ago. It stands to reason that over time.....maybe a long time, the class will die without new motors....but that being said, the Tohatsu came onto the market at a bad time....the economy was going in the tank, you name it. And...having a boycott of D stock when the Tohatsu first ran was sure not a good thing. A bunch of us went to the winternationals in 2006 down in Pineville LA and even though the Tohatsu in the trailer I came down in did not run...the class was boycotted. There is a lot of hard feelings to this day over that event. I am not in anyway trying to dredge up bad memories from the past. But. There are a lot of reasons why the class is not doing well. At some point in time APBA in my opinion step in and right things. See you all at nationals.