Some Creative Alternatives

[nbass]

I want to start a discussion focused on using today’s off-the-shelf equipment for racing, probably OPC racing. There has been some discussion under the posting titles “where do you draw the line”, and I want to re-open that discussion focused on new members, new classes and new thinking.

It is clear, at least to me, that boat racing (classic stock, mod, pro, and OPC) is on a steep decline. Life does not revolve around boat racing, but it is a great hobby and pass time for the rusty mechanic, old an feeble to discuss (me), and the young looking for a place to stay out of drugs and other devious activities. It is not cheep, but neither is a new car, and many a youth buy some very expensive cars. However, what we have at hand is a clientele with little or no opportunity to buy new equipment that can be run on the lake for an hour of fun or at a racecourse for some real competition. The alternative is a jet ski and they are not cheep either.

So, I wish to propose some alternatives for discussion and hope other alternatives are posted. I understand that it is difficult if not impossible to start a new class and have enough competitors to fill the class for several years. There are alternatives to the problem.

• For example, the 45SST class – allow stock off-the-shelf 70HP engines to run with the 45s. Maybe score them separately and evaluate each year. This concept could be used in any existing class.
• Start a class of off-the-shelf engines banded by HP, boat, and propeller type. I think this has already been done elsewhere. Evaluate results and fine tune.
• Start a class of 4-cycle only, maybe in the 30HP range. There are lots of 4-cycle alternatives on the market. Run them with whatever class available maybe sport C.
• Consider allowing after market parts such as lower units, and electronics. Tohatsu America is working on some aftermarket modifications to their EPA approved 50HP fuel injected engine so it can perform above the magical stock RPM range. Allow nose cones and after market gear ratios. Manufacturers are more likely to support racing if minor aftermarket modifications are required to make a race product.

Anyone with a reasonable boat should to be able to compete at some level. Once the competition begins, many will find their way into the sport. Do others have some positive ideas?
Neil Bass

[washburn]

What would new folks think about a class that ran 50-60 hp 4 strokes on tunnels. the only modifications allowed would be the additon of steering bars, solid mounts, racing quaility power trim and a shorter center section if the MFG would make a short shaft. The above modifications are all safety/control modifications only. Most of the MFG's make a 4-stroke in this HP range. If you go much larger the weight of the engines seems to increase dramatically. With a 50 to 60 hp engine, nose cones wuld not be needed and would probably not be an advantage. This would give drivers an off the shelf EPA legal motor that they could race for a year and sell. It would also allow most of the MFG's to race heads up since most have 4 strokes in the 50 to 60 hp range that have similar weights.
If you don't crash the boat, racing should be as cheap as it gets.

No matter what we do the challenge is going to be boats. To be competitive in a four stroke class I doubt that there are existing boats that are designed to carry the weight with the Horsepower. IMO whatever we do would need to be a capsuled boat. The big question is will people entering the sport be willing to make the initial investment in a new boat and a new engine. (You could probably get most of your money out of the motor if you decided to sell but maybe not the boat) I would guess if you put a rig together that the initial cost would be over 12 k by the time you had the boat race ready. For this to work you would have to have enough boats in an area to race against each other. One in FLA, one in WI, and a couple on the west coast will not work. I believe we would also need to get MFG's interested enough to make engines available at a reasonable price to get the class started.
(Sport C in the upper MId west is working now because they have a bunch of boats in that area. We need to learn from them.)

Any thoughts from people wanting to get into racing

[nbass]

Make the old boats the ones to run.

How about starting the new 4-cycle class so that the only boats they can run are the existing design 45SS boats, and let them run with the 45SS class, score them separately until there is enough for their own class.

More ideas please.
Neil

[T Chance]

How about starting the new 4-cycle class so that the only boats they can run are the existing design 45SS boats, and let them run with the 45SS class, score them separately until there is enough for their own class.

More ideas please.
Neil

I agree with Neil. It would be too much to expect with brand newly designed boats, with new motors trying to attract new drivers. There needs to be a transition that appeals to both the newcomer and veteran alike.

I say that as someone, when I switched from Pro to OPC, that moved into used proven equipment. Had I been a guinea pig it never would have happened.

But now I'm back as a Pro racer again and I'll post my thoughts on Pro later.

[washburn]

It is a good thought to keep the price down. Mandating use of 45 SSt boats with the 60 4 strokes I do not think will work. The 45 SST motor is a very compact light weight package. I believe that Placing a 240 to 250 lb motor with a much higher center of gravity on a 45 boat would be a handful to drive. The other factor that you run into is after what modifications does it no longer become an old 45 boat. A thought may be to mandate that the construction of the boat is fiberglass and place a minimum weight at a level where it is not worth trying to build it out of carbon or kevlar which would run the price way up.

I could be way off on this but I would guess that a four stroke 60 would be 10 mph slower than a good SST 60 set up for competition. I would also be surprised if they would be competitive with a good 45. if APBA ever goes this direction they would need to test it to see where it fits into the mix. I think you are correct that it would be great to have an existing class where the rigs could run until they could establish there own class.

OPC should look into this type of a class or something very similar with the intent of keeping it affordable. If it is a new class to start people in I would agree that the motors need to be off the shelf and EPA compliant so that they can sell the motors at the end of the day.

[nbass]

Some more choices

There are also a number of fuel injected two cycle outboards that meet EPA requirements. Some fuel injected models claim to have exceeded the performance of four-cycle outboards in both emissions and fuel economy. This may be where boat racing needs to be. Below are some sites for your enjoyment.

Tohatsu/Nissan 40 through 115 HP
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/index.html

Yamaha 8 through 115 HP
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...home/home.aspx

Mercury 75 through 250 HP
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/optimax/

Evenrude/Bombardier 40 through 250 HP (not sure about availability of all, have seen the 50HP)
http://www.brp.com/en-US/Products/Evinrude/Showroom

An interesting site that tells who makes what. Not everything is as it appears.
http://www.rbbi.com/links/outboard.htm#makes

Enjoy,
Neil

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Bass Fishin" ????

From what you guys say we need to check our prioritis, but that's just a thought???
I'm gittin" my rifle out on the next day i can see good.
RichardKCMo

[KG4]

Their is a company in Michigan called Sun coast marine.They sell SLT stuff.I think they sell a 60hp 4 stroke short shaft merc for the SLTs.Might be worth checking into.I would also like to see an OPC classic division.15-17ft capsule hulls that can be purchased for under 5k and the old 1500 inline.Kind of like the old sport j class but with capsules.Those old inlines are all around and are very cheap and you can still get parts for them.No twisters or stranglers just the old fishing and ski engines like i have on my family boat.A guy could go racing for around 6k and have the time of his life.I think speeds would be in the high 70s.

[Ron Hill]

From My Point of VIew

1. Over the years, I've actaully made some money making propellers. I have made molds for older motors and everytime for KG-4 Kamic, to Speedy Twin Evinrudes, I've never gotten my money back from sales to pay for the molds... With that said, I'm not sorry I make some cool old class stuff, but my customers on these props are usually old than myself, and I;m OLD. We can't explect GROWTH from OLD STUFF.....Short term like Tri Hulls, yes... Texas has Glastron Tri Hulls laying all over the state...Sooner or later, if this class grows, it will be with new motors, like Enirude's E-Tec 115...

2. Someone, would have to convince the "POWERS THAT BE" that allowing one boat to run in a class would be ok...Like 45 SS, could be combined witha stock 75.....scored seperately...But, I could see it NOW...So dummie, like me, goes and get a FREE SUZUKI, puts it on a boat, and no one will want to run there 45 with it becasaue I'll be slow, and I'll make wakes and I'll......An OFFICIAL DECREE would be that "No boats Will BE Left Behind"... Dudley Malone said it pretty weel...He said something like this...We run fast and slow boats together..The fast boats learn to stay out of the way of slow boats and the slow boats learn to stay out of the way of fast boats...

We just completed our THIRD Blue Water Resort and Casino 300 Enduro...We had an Avenger that went 50, we had Mike Avila's twin engine that went 125 plus....We had a very safe and FUN RACE...42 boats started and next year there will be more!!! We raced six Divisions (Classes) together...

3. Classic OPC is a must.
A. Nostalgia Outboard to 80 MPH speedlimit
B. Mostalgia Outboard II 14 feet and under, 65 MPH speedlimit

(Please try to understand Speedlimits before you tell me I'm seriously CRAZY...It took me three years to understand it....Now, I love it...There are over 100,000 "BRACKET" car racers in America. We have raced Nostalgia for three years, maybe four, and NEVER had an arguement with the GPS or the officials....We race THREE Nostalgia classes: Jet, Flat Bottom and Endurance The owners and drivers of these boats are good club members. They pay their entry fees. They all enjoy racing.......They don't bust up their stuff. They come back to race again).

At Region 12's Meeting, last Sunday...I BEGGED ERNIE DAWE AGAIN, to allow 15 HP STOCK PRODUCTION FEET to run in the J class. His answer...APBA has A (ONE) Mercury 15 in stock.......Ernie, I love you like a brother...I sold what four boats for you this year and bought two myself.....BUT, BUT I want to run a FREE HONDA...Not a buy a Mercury....I have $6,000 worth of Evinrude and Johnson 15's....now....A FREE HONDA even if it was slow would be fun to fool with....

I'm sponsoring one J Hydro and my grand niece is running J hydro, so we know about how fast a J Hydro will go....Why can't we run one????? ANSWER it doesn't have no $1,200 racing lower unit....We just finished fourth ina 300 mile race with a fishing lowerunit and we went 85 MPH for three hours and Chad wants to run it again, next week! Might look like a 36???? (The best class ever kicked out of APBA)...

The answer is, "Don't change anything...in another 40 years my great grand kid will be the only one racing and he'll win!!!!"

When COBRA was the BIGGEST OUTBOARD CLUB IN AMERICA and only raced in California, Mexico and Arizona...You could bring a boast to the race and race...There was always a class for you...Then, I brought them into APBA, and they went out of business!!! (I'm from the government and I'm here to help)...

Real ANSWER: LOCAL CLASSES. LOCAL CONTROL Like Cracker Box. Like California Nostalgia...

[KG4]

Ron,I was just on your brf web site looking at the pics from the 300 and all i can say is wow.You should be proud of the direction your taking racing over their.When i read their was an avenger at the race that got my attention because i have one.If i lived closer i would love to run that race with my avenger.You guys looked like you where having a ton of fun.You guys are putting the fun back in racing.That race looks like the average guy could run it.Keep up the good work.Mr Bass,Could you pm me your phone number?My dad wants to talk to you about a mid and lower for his 50 nissan.Thanks guys.

[Zonker]

How About???

Hey Bruce & Neil,
How about using exsisting SST60 & SST70 CAPSULED boats. Run the 4cycle off-the-self EFI 50-60Hp motors on them? These boats can be purchased at a reasonable price. They would have the lenght to carry the wieght of the motor, and offer the safety of a CAPSULED boat, without breaking the bankrole.
There is room to let the sport evolve. We need to be open minded in seeking aternitives to bring new people to the sport. Off-the-self STOCK motors, 4strokes, EFI motors, is viable, as long as cost, SAFETY, and KEEPING it that way, is key to making it all work.
You both have introduced some VERY GOOD, REASONABLE, alternitives. I applaud your thoughts & efforts.
I also kinda like the idea of running the 100 CI Inline motors, but there may be more problems involved with trying to get this off the ground.
Current stock motors is a better choice, I believe.
Just my thoughts,
Thanks,
Zonkercraft

[washburn]

I agree a SST60 or 70 boat would be the right length. If you could find one with a little too much lift for 60 or 70 it would be perfect for 4stroke 60.
This idea may work yet.

[Ron Hill]

Choose ONE MOTOR

Choose ONE FOUR STROKE....All other classes have one motor....To get the "BALL ROLLING", just pick a motor and say, "THIS IS IT.." Does Evinrude make an E-Tec 70??? How about Mercury....

My bias is going toshow here, but a HONDA would be my first choice.... Ask me why!!!!

ADD; KG-4 that Avenger os TOTALLY "HOT"....If MY RULES are in for 2008 at Parker, you can run that boat with either a V-4 OMC or in line six Merc....(Run what you brung engine rules)...Division I....

Parker WAS fun....I think 42 started most thought, if they could run 300 miles they could win....How many people start and race and think they can win??? The Blue Water Resort and Casino has set thedate for 2008 at October 19, 2008... Us your frequent flyer mileage and come out!!!!

[Jeff Akers]

Does Evinrude make an E-Tec 70???

No, But they do make an E-tec 40-50-60 (two cylinder) and a 75-90 (three cylinder)

[washburn]

I am not opposed to a one motor class. I am not totally sold on it either. Ron what is your rational for one motor only?
There may be some positives to getting several manufactures involved in racing.
"Their is a company in Michigan called Sun coast marine.They sell SLT stuff.I think they sell a 60hp 4 stroke short shaft merc for the SLTs.Might be worth checking into" (Quote KG4)
If you did go with one motor it sounds like Mercury may already have a short shaft 4 stroke for the SLT's. Take the tiller handle off and your ready.
Bruce