external water pump

[Ron Selewach]

Hello everyone - I'm restoring an early 80's Jones 2.5 (or copy, don't know how to tell) with a 2000 cc Pinto engine. It has a 12V external waterpump that runs but doesn't pump water. All labels on the pump have been worn off, so I can't tell what it is (pic attached). The pump is not the usual impeller type, but more of a 2 piston tiny pump head. Any suggestions on what I should replace this with? I have no idea what the flow rate should be for a new pump, or if needs to be a special pump allowing more passthrough flow once the boat is on plane, or if there might be a rebuild kit for the current pump. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also, there are no timing marks anywhere; have tried setting advance the old Merc way locating TDC and going from there, but I can tell I don't have it right yet. When I got the boat the timing was half a revolution off, but I suppose that is another post with a different topic. Thanks much for any help/thoughts/suggestions.

[deeougee]

Ron are you using this boat for vintage events? If you are ditch the external pump. Guys in inboard use the external pump for the the park and start. The pump in the pic is just an inline water pump (looks like it but you said it is a piston pump) nothing special, runs on DC (battery power). Just go back to the regular pickup on the rudder and you’ll be good. Do you have a route diagram for cooling? Your engine, is it the 71-74 Euro engine? Is it complete? If not I would ditch it and get a 2.3, more parts available. An OMC 2.3 is your best option for what I think you are doing comes with the cast iron 2 bbl intake. If you were racing the boat I’d recommend another 2.3

[Ron Selewach]

Thank you deeougee. Hope to be able to make some of the vintage events. I thought that might be the case, relying on the pump only for low speeds. The motor is the earlier version, and is now complete; I had to find such rare things as main jets for the carburetor but it is now complete. I also have a spare 2.3 as a backup, and it does have the cast iron intake. Quick answers to my questions, I so appreciate this website.
Race safe
Ron

[Ron Selewach]

Another question - how do I tell if this boat is a genuine Jones or a copy?

[deeougee]

What is the history of the boat? You know who the original owner was and could you post a picture of the boat when it ran competitively or a current picture. I assume it would have been one of the last boats build before the capsule boats started coming out in about 1989. Look into getting Steve Smith’s Pony book. He is a circle track racer and put together a reference book for circle track racing and there is a section on the ford 2.3 that most people reference when building an engine. I use to work for ford so I know the 2.3 like the back of my hand, it was my playground for a lot of years. The casting numbers on ford engines refer to what core box the part came out of so ford could track quality control issues coming from the boxes and make adjustments at the pattern shop. Anyone who says one reference number is better than another does not know what they are talking about because they do not know what the numbers mean other than the reason I just gave. I worked in a number of ford casting and engine manufacturing facilities so I know what these things mean.

[Ron Selewach]

Don't know much about its history. I bought the boat from Richie Golder who ran stocks, pros, and inboards - Grand Nationals. Agent Orange got him a few years back. He had just bought the boat at the Orange Cup Regatta from a guy in central Florida, but that's all he knew of the boat's history. Jim Alt thought it looked like a California boat. With your background, Deeougee, you must truly be an expert on that engine. As you suggested, I added a couple of pics. Another question, the strut (?) on the back of the bottom that holds the propshaft - are they not greased in any way? There is no place to grease it.

[deeougee]

Hmmm…..your going to have to check with some of the the inboarders of the past to figure out what boat that is. Can’t tell if it is a Jones boat or not. In regards to the strut/shaft lubrication many use oil lite bushings. I’ve also seen some with a graphite bushing material. Have not seen any with a zerk fitting for grease. Check with some current inboard guys to see what they are currently using but I do not think that area has changed at all. You could talk to Ron Jones about your boat, he might recognize it if he built it. No identification marks on the boat/hardware at all that may give you any clues?

[Ron Selewach]

Thanks for the thoughts and advice, deeougee; much appreciated. I still have more places on the boat to check for names or serial numbers. You've given me more ideas.

[Bill Tetro]

Ron , throw the pump away. Plumb direct.

[Ron Selewach]

Hi Bill, thanks for the confirmation on the pump. Been a long time since we've seen each other; last time we raced at Ocoee I think. Hope you've been well and prosperous.

[fast213]

Richie is no longer with us ? He was part of our race team with his Grand Prix boat Thanks Mickey Belle Isle