OMC 25 motor approved for A mod

[G Stillwill]

Scot thats what APBA did when they made the Merc 15 legal for A class but its hard to bring a new motor into a class with a motor thats been around for awhile and be competitive with it unless its faster then the motor thats in place then they are not competitive anymore. That was what the restictor plate was for but no one wanted it. If a new motor is introduced its either going to be faster or slower for the class and either way the drivers wont want it. It takes time to get a new motor up to speed and what works and what dont but keeping it legal. In 1952 a KG-4 ran about 52 or 53 on a hydro and when it went out the door for the OMC a good one was pushing 60 and was faster then the OMC. A lot of the speed increse was boats and props but alot was knowing which combination of parts worked best. Not by blue printing with machine work per say but how careful it was put together. No one wants to see the class they run made obselete but if a new motor is put in a class and the exsisting motor is still in the same class one or the other needs to be restricted so they are on an even playing field.

[bfitz]

I agree with Scott...

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

omc a mod

Is this the 22 cu in that runs in b1 in nbra?

[STEVE FRENCH]

22OMC/Merc

I'll have both 25ss(pulled the pipe off) and omc out there.
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I'm concerned about the post that the omc is "not legal" on 25ss tower. This is the way I was going to build. Is that a rule or was it old "Iron Fist" mad cause the Omc was being used on his tower?
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Is the cut omc flywheel legal. going back to e-bay to get a recoil starter.
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I was hoping to try this in BSH. Did it even make the stock ballet?
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I ran my second best 20H "outlaw" motor (59mph on gps-it was rough water) at Ocoee and was still a half lap behind the 2 hot-rods with chambers. Going to keep one 20h for lake play and retire the rest to e-bay.
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I'll give this a try, but I think it would of fit better in bsh. Just my thoughts.
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19P JUST HAVING FUN "GOING FASTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!"

[Mike 41P]

These motors in stock form have no chance against my 20H let alone an actual Amod Hot Rod.

Steve is right. They would be very competive in stock form with the un-modified A Hot Rod (which I also run), that we for some reason now call B-stock.

I don't see how this is going to help the Amod class.

Mike T

[Mike 41P]

Here is page 2 of the 74 spec

[reed28n]

Merc 15

G Stillwill

That is exactly what APBA did not do in the A Class. That is my major philosphical difference. APBA tried (unsuccessfully) to introduce the Merc into the existing, very popular OMC A class. The major problem is that the Merc has not caught up to the OMC and won't. The fact that the A class is not in trouble was kind of skipped over to try to bring in the Merc that runs in J and which we added another class AXS for.

I believe we should concentrate on a struccling clas like the B Stock classes. The Tohatsu was played with and the OMC was played with to compete with the hand made Hot Rods. ( Which I love and own and would love to race every weekend if it were more popular)

When I wrote that motors should flow from Stock to Mod, is this: We should phase out the 15 cu in Hopt Rod from Stock. Encourage this driver pool to participate in the A Mod classes which are struggling. Ask the Mod commission to alter the rules for the 15 Hot Rod to make the transition easier to encourage participation.

This makes room for a carefully selected New B motor. It may cost $3000 ( the cost of a fishing motor) and it may not run as fast as the current A motor. But it doesn't have to. Drivers want to race. All of the racers will be on the same learning curve and we will make the class faster together, raise the compition level, and entice crossover drivers who wnat a new ride and have brand new equipment that is competitive out of the box.

We should not restrict existing motors to slow them down to new motors. Have a plan and phase out obsolete equipment, no matter how much a guy like loves the motor. I will still be racing.

One opinion

Scott Reed

[reed28n]

you think Dan could add spell check. The sentence should say will not have to compete or be as fast as the current B as boy class not A

Soorry
**** this keyboard

[nightmoves]

Scott

EXACTLY!! There are alot of guys here that have made that same argument and received the same results as you, the problem is no-one wants to be that guy that decides what motors to put on the retirement list.
As for the Tohatsu idea, everytime I ask about it I never get a response about it. There was one in circulation a few years back that was coming along but seems to have dissappeared and so has all of the data on it. From what I understood about it the top speed was in the mid 50's but the torque in the corners was incredible, would supposedly run down the competition in the corners. A real fast FA ride I was told. New B motor????

[reed28n]

I think it would be more widely accepted to phase out a class if there were

1) A scheduled date that everyone was aware of and we stuck to

2) A viable alternative class for the existing motor to placed in
AKA Mod Class

3) A fair number of new motors ready to race on the same date that had been tested with a little prop work and rigging done maybe even a couple interested parties displaying and a mock race, the prior year to it being brought in, at the Nationals

This scenerio would work best for a Stock class flowing over to an exclusive Mod Class. But new motors we look at should be off the shelf Stock with very few if any changes outside of rigging the throttle and the gearfoot.

This would be another good time to thank Dan for this site so we can all make idiots of ourselves. Thanks Dan

Scott

[Brian10s]

Scott,
On your last post, I happen to agree. I do not have a problem with change and/ or new ideas. But change needs to be a 2 way street.

If I read your thought correctly, you would be looking to have the Stock category have all new/ recently produced engines and the Mod category be the place for this older equipment to continue it's life. I hope I got your idea correct, because I think it has potential.

Here is an idea to build on:
The SORC has to create a mandate that all classes must have an engine that has been produced in the last "X" years (X being 10 - 15 or whatever). All motors running currently are legal in Mod (except for the 25XS but I'm sure that could be arranged). This would keep the stock ranks filled with only new "in production" equipment yet not bounce an engine upon manufacture's wims.

Have MORC set a mandate that within 3 years of a Stock bring in a new engine, Mod would also adopt it. (The reason for this is 2 fold. 1st to allow the stock drivers first crack at all new equipment without competiton and increase prices and 2nd to ensure a larger driver base after the first 3 years to continue production levels and keep the 2 categories running parallel.


How's that for adding to an idea.

Brian

[reed28n]

I think we are on a similar track. It maybe difficult to have the production years in stone, given the popularity of the current A motor, but I think this idea has merrits to protecting the longevity of our sport.

I believe our energy has be in the direction of new assets. Not reviving old ones. This may also make our sport more attractive to manufactures. ( that may be a stretch)

It is worth the discussion

[Brian10s]

Scott,

I think there almost has to be a rule cut in stone in order for this to work. If not then why bring in a new engine. Take the A for example. It hasn't been produced in what 5 years. Already the talk is of replacement engines and that motor is probably has the 2nd greatest numbers. And the talk was HIGHLY emotional. With a 10 year rule, everyone ruling "A" would know what the future is and could plan their direction.
If you want one category where you can buy a motor at the dealer, then you need to set a production rule or else you have the same thing you have now. People want to keep the strong, no matter what, and get rid of the weak. And I do not believe you are just looking to get rid of the week but instead to create a category that would have new engines for every class.

And by having all existing Stock classes roll into Mod, no one would get left behind. A driver could buy the new engine, run his current equipment in Mod in "Stock" form or make the modifications and run in "Mod" form.
No equipment is wasted or discarded, no driver is turned away and there will always be a steady stream of new engines for both categories in the future.

You 100% right in that it is worth the discussion.

Brian

[reed28n]

And if we were able to have this type of cooperation between stock and mod there would be no reason to combine the categories, so you keeep all of the old school (identity types) happy in their own category.

Scott

[53-W]

A-mod Hot-rod

I sent this proposal to the mod commistion to get more boats on the water in A-mod ,which I do race. I wanted the old 25ss engines allowed in AMR as last raced in stock to see how fast they run compared to the A-mod Hot-Rod and stock 20H. also to see if they need to allow more modifications to bring the old 25ss's up to speed with out use of pipes.

Number 2 reason is that I wanted it to be approved with the following "Legal" modifications to help stock and mod racing of 2 cyclinder racing engines in general. By allowing engine builders to look for new types carbs and ignition systems for use on future racing engines in other stock and mod classes.

But what I proposed and what got approved are where not 100% the same some things got lost or left out.

my proposal as I remember it, read close to the following I added a few after thoughts to this version

I would like the old Merc and 0mc 25ss stock engines to be legal for use in A-mod runabout for 2004 season, due to very low driver numbers in AMR. NOT IN A-MOD HYDRO. This is to get more AMR drivers and to test the speed of the old 25ss stock engines against the A-mod hot-rod and 20H. Before using it in AMH.

The Merc 25ss and the OMC have to meet all old ABPA Stock 25ss specs on power heads, towers, gear cases, and no pipes, exhaust must exit through stock Merc 25ss or stock Hot-Rod tower with use of power head adaptor plate that does not alter stock Hot-Rod tower, and hot rod gear cases and tower must meet current stock B class specs.

All stock power head specs must be used, except the following modifications are legal. Drilling and tapping power heads to make the following modifications fit are legal

The 25ss Merc and OMC engines can use any type of currently available 32mm or smaller single carburator and fuel pump, can move carb studs to make carb fit, any type of self generating iqnition system that is not lighter then min Hot-Rod flywheel weights, remove rewinds and install rope plates. can use any available to the public O.E.M type aftermarket stock pistions up to .030" oversize, reroute water and run "dry towers".

I hope this adds some reasons and thoughts why this was done.

By the way the Hot-Rod is the only American build small Outboard RACING engine left in production. There will never be another small two stroke outboard RACING engine ever build again with the performace and ride of this engine. Like it or not, it is small kneel down racing only real legal future far as racing an production true stock Racing engine!!!! No Manufacture will produce us a small outboard RACING engine again!!!
53-W
Darrel Ludwig